Spoken like a guy who really knows. For those that don't, there is so much more that goes into a low ET than just HP numbers. I did a dyno tune once, the car made more power and slowed down a tenth. How, you ask? More peak, but lost a little torque down low, so it took the car a little longer to get moving. To me, the tuning is a great part of the fun, tweaking out every last .01.
couple things : *task at hand - mild motor , stock intake with a well set up q-jet and spend your hard earned $$ on cam , gear and exhaust parts etc . on a bigger money motor at this time ( until something better comes along ) i would say the TA intake with some careful "tuning" and port matching and ask plenty of questions from people here and a select few good buick shops and suppliers . major money motor is gonna need an x-manifold and/or a power adder . *what we need next is to have someone develop/manufacture a good solid 3000 - 8000 range intake in the $300 - $450 range . lower rpm range - not needed , higher price - tough to sell . heads not needed yet - walk then run guys . one task at a time . or - an easy to use adapter to run a more common intake one the 350 . remember , before mike and TA came along all the 455 guys had was stock , EDELBROCK B4B or the K-B adapter to run a mopar 440 intake pretty much . no fancy heads , no single planes , no nothin . *i agree with everone who thinks that the 350 is long overdue for a good intake - BUT - (1) i don't like to phone/bug people over and over for something when i know they are busy ( mike : yeah baby , i'm in for a good manifold at a decent price - half down ? ) (2) mike is ABSOLUTELY correct in being cautious with expenses involved to develop a new manifold . expenses will kill a business unless kept in check - and that is not a guess . and we can not afford to loose what basically is a large percentage of our "supplies" . i think he has a good sense of balance between "buick love" and business sense . and i am sure he has stuck his neck out on way more than one occasion for some of us . talk is cheap , not much else is . del
Can iron SBB heads be ported enough to flow at 8000 rpms? Does not look like it, to me. Are there light, strong pistons and rods out there for that? To make serious power with a 350 you need rpms, no way around that. To do it you need good heads, intakes, and headers, light weight pistons and rods, good crank and block. What are the limitations of the 350 block and crank without girdles, etc? I know a lot about engines, but not a lot about Buicks, so I am here to learn.
This is mostly true for NA applications, but again, a little nitrous or boost is the way around that. There are some 350's that spin to and over 8000 rpm but not without high dollar rods, and light weight pistons. These items can be had, but are not inexpensive. Bill Mah seems to be the one who knows how much power a non-girdled block is able to handle, but I'm fairly certain it is over 1000hp.
Really!? 1000HP? I had no idea that they were that strong. I am a great proponent of nitrous on a street/strip car. Run a low 14, get 18 mpg, have a cool car that you can drive anywhere. Build it strong, flip the switch, run a high 11 on race day. One overlooked aspect of nitrous is that you don't need a lot of gear due to the ridiculous amount of torque that it makes. I have buddy's going high 8s with a 4.10 gear. Mine would run high 11s easy with a bigger shot with 3.42 gears.
When Bill M was buidling his "Mighty Mouse" 355 cid engine that made over 1000 hp and ran 8 second quarters he used 8:1 compression, heavily ported stock heads, healivy ported stock intake, and was around 550 hp NA. The engine loved to spin up to the higher rpm ranges of about 7500 rpm due to the custom crank, rods and pistons that were lighter than stock. while the engine revved good the hp numbers flattened off above 6000 rpm as to be expected. A different story however once the procharger was bolted on as the engine came alive about 6000 and skyrocketed in power. My build is not as exotic as Bills, however I am using the $1300 Herche rods which are far lighter and stronger than stock, $800 Diamond forged pistons that are the best and lightest available. Other than those two things the engine is very stock. Engine was running awesome before rebuild with 55,000 miles and teardown showed great condition. Stock crank is lightened and re-sized 10 under on mains and rod journals. Stock block is VERY strong. align honed to get the specs Bill M suggests on mains... with ARP studs, ballanced assembly, double timing chain set from TA, TA 212 cam, and ported stock heads with Burton Machine roller rockers. Simple build all under $5000 complete and ready for the Multi Port FI X-Factor intake, and twin turbo kit.
Most of everything we are looking for can be had paying the right person to sit down and a die grinder and give them time. But the majority of the market doesn't want to do that. They want a weekend bolt on kit. They don't want to wait 6-8 months in line to get theri engine done. Why the cheby market is so big, you can bolt on HP in a weekend that most any idiot can do. If someone took the time to get sets of stock heads and stuff ready ahead of time, so it was a short wait and bolt on, that could work too. But most folks don't want their engine down more then a few weeks.
If it was easy it would not be as much of an acomplishment to ME if it was that easy! Like Mike Williamson has been saying, there is a lot of potential using the stock parts but very few know how to manipulate the combo of camshafts, induction, timing, exhaust ect to make things fall into place. Changing one variable at a time and keeping detailed notes and recods is the key to un-locking the power of many engines. It has been proven that with no head porting people can make a 375 hp NHRA legal Buick 350 out of a late model 165 hp smogger engine like in your 80. It takes time and experimenting but the 350 is a champ!
It has been my experience that "Bolt ons" are seldom actually that. This afternoon I spend several hours clearancing a set of heads because the push rods rubbed on a pair of after market SBC heads. There is a LOT more to engine building than just bolting on parts. Not busting balls, just relaying my own experience. Plus, most times these super-double-throw-back heads will need more cam and compression to really work well, along with a trick valve train, so in reality you ARE talking about an entire engine build. You will need to check piston to valve clearance, degree the cam, probably order new pushrods (you won't know which ones you need until the engine is together) and on and on. To do it correctly is time consuming, but the devil is in the details, that is what seperates the good running cars from the REALLY good running cars.
WOW!!! I came across this thread while doing a search for a 350 4bbl intake. I was wanting a new intake to convert my 2bbl to a 4bbl, a cam, and some lower gears to get my new toy moving while I built up a 455 I just bought. I got my car in September and have bought a new interior, motor, and wheel/tire combo for it already. I think it is safe to say that most guys that have an older car do it as what most would consider a luxury or hobby. Gearheads are going to spend money on their car. When I bought this car I wasn't even looking for a Buick! After I bought it I joined this sight to learn a bit more about the Buick. I've met a couple of you guys, and have chatted and traded parts with a few of you. I hate to talk about income or spending habits but after reading this thread I have had a serious change of heart and a change in plans. I have been blessed more than I deserve, and have been very fortunate these last few years. I work in an industry that is not doing so good right now, and is laying off people right and left. My wife and I have prospered and been very blessed this year. I help manage an oil and gas company, and I have developed many tools for use in the oil field. I know what cost can be involved in developing a new product. I have gone to college for accounting and business management as well as manage business/employees for a living. One thing I have learned is that you do not talk to customers/potential customers certain ways. When you try to explain the cost involved developing new parts, you should not say that it is more than some of us make in a year. Some of us are able to own these vehicles, and buy parts for them because of what we make. If you can not afford to develop more parts, simply say we will do so when we are financially capable. If there is not enough interest point out there are only 5 or 10 orders, not put up or shut up. If you are incapable of communicating the difficulties of your business without getting angry or frustrated refrain from replying not telling your customer base that you are done talking to us. I WAS planning on hopping up my 350 so I could have a fun driver, while I was rebuilding a 455 that I wanted to swap in. After that was in I was planning on rebuilding my 350 for a high performance street/strip back up. I haven't even had my car a year and have spent over $4500.00 on it, not including the purchase price. I WILL not be spending ANY money with T/A performance now or in the future as I do not feel any desire to support a business who treats thier customer base like they are ones doing us a favor. If you are able to do what you love and make a living at it, then it is these guys that are doing you a favor. I thank you for steering me in a different direction, and will now transplant a BBC into my 'lark. I would have spent the money building both Buick motors, but now feel I'll spend all the extra money I'll be saving on my family. The last thing I want to say is that I respect the approach Justa350 has taken and will buy an intake from him, before I buy one from T/A even if the cost was double. Justa350 I thank you, sir, for the work that you do and wish you success. You guys can bash me if you like, but this is my opinion on the matter.
