Polyurethane bushings?

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by Atbb, May 18, 2011.

  1. Steiner99

    Steiner99 Well-Known Member

    PST just repackages the black Energy Suspension brand bushings. I don't believe anything they sell is their own product, they just put together kits. At least they did years ago when I bought a deluxe kit for my '69 Camaro....it was just Energy Suspension bushings and grease seals with TRW balljoints and tie rods.

    You may be able to find Energy Suspension locally as most parts stores here in the US sell them for the same price as Summit (at least where I'm at). As long as you get the black ones they are polygraphite which is just graphite impregnated polyurethane to help with self lubrication. The red ones are straight polyurethane. As long as you don't get skimpy with the grease they include you should not have any squeaking.

    As for the rest of the hard pieces (and stock type bushings), Rock Auto has pretty good prices on Moog. They also carry TRW, AC Delco, and Raybestos. I haven't used any Raybestos suspension parts but I have used the professional grade brake pads and they are very good quality. Code 52662593046495 in the "how did you hear about us" box will get you 5% off.
    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

    Based on my experience with a 40 year old car, I'd replace everything at once if you don't know when it was last done. Once you start knocking stuff apart something you didn't see will always be waiting.
     
  2. Airy Cat

    Airy Cat Airy Cat

    In California the roads are so bad (rough) that it doesn't matter what kind of bushings that you use. You will get a rough ride regardless.
     
  3. GotTattooz

    GotTattooz Well-Known Member

    I vote for PST as I have the PolyGraphite bushing kit. I like the stiffer ride as I have 1 1/4 front an 1 1/8 rear sway bars, 1 inch lowering springs, and the polygraphite front end kit in my 67 skylark. You feel a lot more of the road imperfections, but it doesn 't have the "old car roll" when I take corners. IF you're looking for a stock ride, get the rubber bushing. I don't have polyurethane, but apparently they squeak. I haven't heard a peep out of the polygraphite, so if you want a stiffer ride, polyG is your answer.

    -JOsh
     
  4. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Ok guys, thanks a lot, I`ll get it going within the next 3 weeks and I will cover all the worn out parts my suspension has to offer, shocks and springs included.

    But a last question:
    For coming off the line, I understand a softer combination (springs and shocks) in the back might be better because they get you hooked up better that the suspension you`d find on a sports car. What would you suggest as a spring/shock combo on the car? Again, I don`t want it ride hard, a comfortable cruise feeling and good hooking up on accelaration are my goals.

    Jens
     
  5. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    One more thing after seaching on the internet:

    IF I decide to go all rubber with the bushings, where can I get a set of these? OEM means that they are (still) produced/in stock by GM? Can you guys in the U.S. just walk into an autozone and get a set of original rubber bushings for these classic cars? As stated before, the only source I found was CARS.
    Please help me understand where you get these rubber ones from.

    Jens
     
  6. oldzy

    oldzy Member

    I use Rock Auto most of the time. Got my Moog rubber bushings there, but I am going to try the Energy Suspension bushings first.
     
  7. Tricolor72

    Tricolor72 Well-Known Member

    The parts place and Original parts group sells complete kits for the most part. Thats who I went with for steering linkage components and suspension parts like ball joints, control arm bushings and sway bar end links.

    A lot of guys say the best place to use polyurethane is the swaybar mounts and the end links and everything else is best left as rubber. I would assume this is because the swaybar has far less movement compared to control arm bushings, yet is a major component in reducing body roll. The stiffer the bushing less roll you will have.
     
  8. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Ok, I`ve decided to go with the rubber stuff. Never checked out OPG before (they have a lot of parts, incredible) but maybe wanna give them a try.

    So, again, thank you all, posting here is always the best thing if you have issues with your car.

    Jens
     
  9. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    Jens - I dont know what your budget is, or when the suspension parts of your car were last changed (if ever) ... but if you have the funds and someone to do the install and are planning to keep it for a while, I'd just do the whole front end at the same time.

    You wont believe how much better it feels - well worth the money and time if you drive the car and plan to keep it.

    Ball joints, upper and lower control arm bushings, tie rods, idler arm, centerlink, and sway bar bushings ... I think thats everything - except springs and shocks. If you do those, you should also do the rears as well ... and then you might as well do those bushings too :puzzled:

    I went with polygraphite bushings about 10 years ago and loved the way it firmed up the ride.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  10. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Hi Alan,

    thanks for your help by listing the parts. I`ll go with everything in the front (let`s see what that`ll cost....again), maybe go for the rear as well. I`m hoping to cut down some unspecific vibration I`m having over 85mph (since I`m driving the car on a the autobahn, I`ll had a TH2004R installed, just for keeping up the flow).
    The car has been sitting for 10 years, dry, but nevertheless, it just sat in a garage, and I don`t think that it was ever rebuild before.

    Would you suggest doing the body mountings as well, can you "just" swap them without totally disassembling the body and frame?

    I`ll let you guys know how it worked out.

    Jens
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  11. Tricolor72

    Tricolor72 Well-Known Member

    I'd like to hear about the body mount procedure as well as I think alot of my ride harshness and miscellaneous noises are coming from worn out bushings
     
  12. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    while changing out 40+ year old body bushings will affect how the car feels (much for the positive) I doubt it is the cause of your vibration.

    Since none of the suspension work is shared with changing the body bushings, I'd say do the suspension work and see how that affects your ride quality. Changing the bushings is not a minor task - not hard just tedious and can often lead to problems where the cage nuts spin when you try and remove the bolts ... it is a job to do when you plan on having the car laid up for the winter or other resto work.

    ... vibrations can be very difficult to track down - I fought one for over 3 years changing wheels/tires, front wheel bearings (add that to your rebuild list !!), new driveshaft with new Th400 yolk and universal joints ... and still never found the issue. For me, it was only above 80mph but it was pretty severe when drag racing on the top end.

    When I changed rear end gears from 3.08 to 3.31 I found the differential yolk had worn where the U-joint sits allowing slight movement - changing this cured my vibration.

    It could have been any of the above ... I just didn't get lucky when trying to find it.
     
  13. racerxjj67

    racerxjj67 Well-Known Member

    I used PST and have had zero problems. I used original rubber in stead of Poly for the more natural feeel. Poly can be too hard especially in the front suspension.
     
  14. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Hi Alan,

    totally agree with you on the vibration issue. I had some severe ones at around 60-70mph, switched to 3.73 and new TH2004R from 3.08 and TH350, still vibrations. Had the driveshaft balanced and new u-joints installed....major difference! But now I have more like an overall "rattle" at about 80 mph upwards, not too strong but annoying. And whenever I go left I have a little knack or bang, might come from a ball joint or something. My overall hope and guess is the car will have less of that rattle when I go over the worn out parts. Front wheel bearing on my list!

    Jens
     
  15. N360LL

    N360LL milehi71Stage1

    Bent wheel or tire issue? Top up or top down? Windows up or down? Driveshaft and pinion angle within range? Alignment out a bit?
     
  16. Tricolor72

    Tricolor72 Well-Known Member

    Wheel bearings are a big issue, I had a bad shake at certain speeds. One day I decided to check my front brakes, of course reseating the front wheel bearing after doing so. Went out on the highway and pulled to 100+ without any vibration :Brow:
     
  17. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Hi,

    issues as described: over 80mph, windows up, won`t really go away, only change a bit in intensity, a SLIGHT vibrations, more like a rattle (which somehow translates as vibrations doesn`t it) at the steering wheel->front issue?
    I`m getting my 8-Track-player restored right now, so maybe I won`t hear it if it`s back in.
    Things that have been changed: driveshaft balanced, new u-joints, new transmission, wheels bearings at the rear changed.

    Had some 14 " Olds wheels before, same tires (Cooper Cobra Radial GT), switched to a set of 14 " Buick Rallye wheels, didn`t change anything concerning the vibes, the major difference was the balancing of the drive shaft, vibrations went down big time.
    I`m hoping the front wheel bearings might play a role, we`ll see. It`s totally tolerable yet still somewhat annoying.

    Jens
     
  18. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    I've had both poly graphite and poly urethane bushings at the same time. both had identical markings and look and feel identical. could be a sales pitch I'd think. Get the Del a Lum greasable or stick w rubber stock moog type.
     
  19. Atbb

    Atbb Well-Known Member

    Ok, I`ve ordered a catalog of OPG....complete front rebuild kits all over. Should`ve had it before, I wouldn`t have tormented you guys with all these questions...still, always very educational!

    Thanks

    Jens
     
  20. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    There is one test you could try which is a bit dangerous so proceed with caution -

    Bring the car up to the speed at which the vibration occurs (or even a bit faster) and shift into neutral (or if really brave and on a long striaght road without other traffic shut the motor off) and see what happens. This eliminates the engine as a possible source (bad balancer, high speed miss ... etc)

    Also, think of solving this problem from the outside inward, i.e., make positively sure the wheels are true by spinning them on a balancer without tires mounted and look for "wobble", then repeat with tires mounted. Next would be to make sure your bearings are good / well greased / tightened correctly. Next would be to check the axles aren't bent in the rear ... etc.

    Without the wheels / tires / bearings / axles being verified as "true" all other testing is useless
     

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