Patrick's Twin Turbo 350 Build Thread

Gotcha, i personally like the pro touring approach if done right...i like modern suspension and wheels but as with everything going overboard hurts.
Yes do it while you are there, i am relativly often in CA?BAY for work i will let you know next time i am out and you /me & Larry can meet up, i am still in very good touch with him

 

Sounds like a plan!

I'll revise my previous statement, I like the handling and performance aspects of Pro Touring . . . I think I just hate how 17" - 20" wheels look on most muscle cars. Or maybe it's that too many people seem to choose ugly modern looking wheels . . . Takes away from the classic style for me.

I love the idea of making old iron handle though. If I can find a way to shoehorn good brakes under 15" wheels I'll be happy!

I've done a few HPDE days at Sonoma and Thunderhill, usually in a sub 100hp lightweight car. I think it would be super fun to get the Buick out there! I usually don't even see anything older than late 80s at the track, and that's usually me with the old Toyota next to all the Miatas, E36s, S2000s, and BRZs!

 

Does anyone have any input on fully MIG welding the frame boxing plates vs stitching with 2" beads? My original plan was fully welded, but my boss talked me into stitching saying that less heat input would mean less distortion, with no "noticeable" reduction in strength. To me that makes sense, but I wanted to ask others who may have done this and are better welders than I. I've definitely seen the stitching technique done on roll cages and other structural parts.

So far I have welded the passenger side middle section on using 2" beads spaced 6" apart center to center. This ends up with 4" unwelded sections in-between each bead. I have staggered to top and bottom so that one's unwelded sections are across from the other's bead. I can still fully weld if that is the better option, but I want to finish this section then move onto the passenger rear, before dropping this side of the body back onto the frame.

Also, my MIG welds aren't too pretty so I'm planning on grinding them to a little above flush. Will try and avoid grinding any of the base metal. Hopefully I've been getting decent penetration!

Note that I did have to do a fair amount of fitting of these plates. Not sure if it's my frame or Skylark vs Chevelle, but there was cutting and bending involved. Pictures to come soon!

 

I agree w/your boss on the stitch welding.

IMHO, all the bodywork on these cars should be done with the body bolted to the frame w/the bushings that'll be used and the frame supported/levelel (i.e. I wouldn't reply on the springs to support it or the floor being level).

 

ain't going to make enough power to need it.

 

I thought about doing that, but I was worried about burning/warping my new poly body bushings with the welding heat. Already trashed what was left of the originals. Also if the body was bolted on, I wouldn't have as much access for welding the top . . .

May not make that much power, but surely the frame will want to twist under hard cornering on the track?

 

Subscribed to the thread!

 

I weld and weld a lot. Self taught so others can give a more educated answer. Your boss is correct. Additionally weld an 1" or 2" on the drivers side then move directly across to the passenger side and repeat. Then move up 2 or 3 feet and repeat. Heat is your enemy. Jump all over the place almost like you are putting on lug nuts. Plan out your welds so they are symmetrical. Symmetry is for ascetics and welds always pull, balance the pulling forces.

 

Ok, here's' the pictures so far!

Notice in the first image, you can see the tab that sticks up to match the contour of the frame. You can't tell in the picture, but the tab is way larger than the frame, and has a significant gap behind it. Not great for an easy to reach or good weld. This point was actually pushing the whole plate out in the middle, making it difficult to fit up the rest:



I fixed this by first bending the tab out to get it to sit more flush against the edges of the frame. This rise in the frame is where the body mount under the door sits:





I also had to bend both of the plate's ends where they butt to the rest of the frame rail:



Then I had to trim the tab (I actually ended up trimming too much off, better luck next side):







Spraying weld-thru primer on the face that will be inside:



At this point I transitioned from wanting to weld the plate sitting on the edges of the frame, to trying to get the plate to fit inside the "C". I'm not 100% sure why I did this, it just seemed more proper. I think getting the bent up lower edge of the frame to sit straight on the boxing plate tickled my OCD. Speaking of which, if anyone does this I *highly* recommend getting the dimpled died version, as you can use the holes as clamping points to pull your frame into shape:









Without the holes, the whole thing would have been a lot more difficult to tack in. I probably would have had to use a jack under the frame to bend the bottom lip up.

Here you can see how I cut the tab down too much, leaving a gap I now have to fill with weld:



All tacked up on the rear half:





There are actually beads on it now, but I need to grab pictures of it. More to come soon!

 

Great work

 

Good job!
Use JB Weld to fill your gap, much easier JK

 

ditto on the nice work ........... thanks for taking the time to fiddle with photos and post them

 

Finally got the passenger side main plate welded in. My welds are pretty crappy, but it's been a long time since I've MIG welded and I'm in a super awkward position overhead. You guys think I should grind 'em down a bit? Was thinking of at least grinding them down to 1/16" above the surface or so, but not flush to maintain strength. I know no one will see them but it's hard to be proud of such ugly welds









One of the few ok looking welds:



This one is especially heinous because I had to bridge the 1/8" gap I left by cutting too much material out of the plate:





At least it's finally in! Looks like the back plate will be much easier and should fit without modification this time. That is, if I'm mocking it up in the correct orientation. I may email ABC and double check. Mocking up pass side back plate:

 

Welding upside down laying on your back isn't easy

 

You are in a tough welding postion. The welds look a little cold. Grind them down so the look uniform.

 

Will grind my welds down!

I've been reading up on welding near the fuel tank to do the rear plates. What I've gathered so far is that it's safest to shield the tank from sparks with a welding blanket, but removing the tank could cause vapors and stray fuels lines to become a hazard.

Anyone have any opinions on this? Need to find out how to jack the rear of the body up to get the tank higher.

 

I'm a little nutty about fuel fires. I had a few friends get the hell burned out of them in sprint cars. I would remove the tank cap and secure the lines. Clean the metal with a wire wheel before welding.
Actually I like using a wire wheel and sanding disc. Clean the whole underside and paint it.

 

Id leave the tank in place and cover it with a welding blanket.
Its the fumes that go BOOM, with the tank and lines connected its all sealed.

 

I know I say this every post, but I really do apologize it's taken me so long to update the thread! I have been busy on the car though.

I ended up deciding to leave the rear reinforcement plates out for now, until the tank and lines are fully removed for the EFI tank.

Got both main rail plates fully welded in, and ground down. Here is the driver side tacked:





Welded:





Here was one of my methods for pulling the bottom of the rails into alignment to match the plates. I also used a large adjustable wrench at times:



Got the entire visible part of the front frame wire wheeled and prepped for paint (boy was that nasty). Some shots of it during the stripping process:







After stripping:

















Did the same to the firewall (also nasty, got covered head to toe in old undercoating repeatedly):





I'm assuming this is writing from a factory worker?

 

While I was at it, I decided to try and weld over some of the less stellar looking areas that were exposed. I'm not really sure if this will help but the factory welds didn't look all that great. Hoping for some extra rigidity. Here are some of the factory welds I didn't like:





I ended up stitch welding the front rails top and bottom, as well as the engine cross member on the sides. I fully welded the entire joint between the engine cross member and the rails. Also did the upper and lower control arm mounts. Measured the gap according to this thread and "N" came in over by about 1/16" (approx 31 3/4" IIRC). I'm hoping over is fine, it's under I was afraid of (would indicate frame sag).

https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/frame-measurements-frame-sag.223310/

Some of my stitch welds:







Somewhere in the middle of all this I pulled out the inner heater box to replace the core:





Had to epoxy a few holes from previous leakage:

New 3M Strip Caulking applied:



Masked up the painted frame and redid the firewall gaps using 3M Urethane Seam Sealer in Gray: