Just wanted you guy's opinions. I have a chance to buy a 70 stage 1 hardtop. The good: Car has a decent southern body, comes with alot of extra parts, and includes a very clean parts car. Its a 70 stage1, automatic, bucket seats, pdb, gauges, sport wheel, a/c, blah, blah, blah. Car has a clean title. The bad: The car is basically stripped down to a shell. The original motor is long gone. The rear is available, but not in the car. Not sure if the original parts come with the car (dist., carb, etc.). I'm not buying the car to resell it. Looking for something to redo myself, and something I won't be afraid to drive. Quite frankly, I can't believe what stage 1 distributors and carbs are bringing on this board. I would like it to be as correct as possible, but I don't have $30-$50k to spend. So, given that the parts aren't date coded and part number correct, what's a car like this worth? I've been a Buick lover since I was old enough to know what a car is. I've owned a 70 GS convertible, 70 GS 350, 72 stage1, and a half a dozen skylarks in between. I just wasn't smart enough to hang on to any of em, especially the vert. In the past 9 years, I've gotten involved with turbo buicks, but I've really got the itch to get another GS. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks
My opinion is to find a really nice 1970 GS 455. I think you can find one for much less than you will spend putting one together unless you just want the experience of building a car which is cool too. Mark
A stage1, although more expensive, would be a better gamble to get your money back out. You say you can't afford 30+ but for every $2 you spend on restoration you're likely to only get $1 back. So the better condition car you can find the better off financially you will be. They are out there in the low $30s. I have one I'd sell in that price range, totally gone through and ready to rock and roll.
With the original engine long gone, you'll never get the high dollar out of it. I would say if you want a big block car, get a Skylark and make a cloned Stage 1. Or just get a "regular" GS455.
I appreciate all of you guy's input. I understand the cost of a full professional restoration will far exceed the value of this car, but I'm trying to take into account that I can do alot of the work myself. Anyway, the price on both cars is $7000.
I'll probably confuse you more. If this car is in Morven, NC then another board member and I looked at it too. We both passed at the asking price. I don't believe he has the carb or distributor. Even if you do a lot of work yourself you will have over $30k in it if you want a decent car. I'm doing a frame-off now and everyday I am more amazed at what I am spending. Everyone above is right, buy one finished unless you want the pride of doing it yourself and you have lots of money. Having said that, that car's body is in great shape. It is probably a Stage 1 but you would need to get a Wayne Roberts report to be sure. We believe there may be something funny about the frame. All the 70 gs's and Skylarks we have between us have a part number that begins 123xxx. This car did not. I forget now, but it was totally different. My last comment is this. You are on the right track, looking for a Stage 1. My car is just a GS455 and there is no way it will ever be worth what I will have in it, but I'm not building it to sell. I'm building it for me. Jim Lore had a numbers matching Stage 1 project car that I thought was too rough, but now that I am into mine I wish I had bought it. If a quarter is bad and needs replaced, it doesn't matter if it's a little bit bad enough or really bad, it still needs to go. If I had done his car instead of the one I'm doing at least I would have had a Stage 1 with a fortune invested instead of a regular 455 car. Good luck whatever you decide.
Yes, this is the car. I agree, I will have a fortune in it when its done. Right now, I'm not in a financial situation where I can't lay down a big chunk of money on a finished car. Otherwise I would. I also looked at Mike Sobotka's 70 GS 455. I was very interested in it, but I came to the conclusion that I would rather have a non matching stage 1 than a matching 455 car. So all this being said, if you guys were in the market for a project car, what would you spend for a car like this? Keep in mind that a clean skylark parts car comes with it.
This is just my opinion, but that's what you asked for, I'd say $4500 to maybe $5000. I'd feel better saying $5k if we saw the Wayne Roberts verification it was a Stage car. I think the good condition of the body will save you $3k to $4k in parts and labor over a "bad" one. He's been trying to sell for a while now, maybe he will take a little less than he has been asking. John
I appreciate your help. I'll take it all into consideration when I talk to him next. FWIW, I've been a diehard drag racer for the past 15 years, so the chances of me putting the car back to stock are slim anyways. I've been seeing alot of southern skylarks pop up for sale in this area. They're priced anywhere from $5000-$8000. I figured why should I settle for a skylark when I could have a real stage1, even if it needed work. John, did you happen to get the VIN from the guy when you talked to him? Thanks Tim
I know its not the right opinion but to have a non matching Stage 1 car cannot be much more than a GS 455 with Stage 1 badging . The value seems to be in the matching numbers . For all the experts out there whats special about the Stage 1 besides the matching numbers drive train and the badging . FWIW I have a nice rust free 70 BB GS thats got 50K miles and is in primer , Its a non matching car and I don't care . The good thing about it is that I can drive it and enjoy it . But like others it is unfinished and needs paint and assembly . Originally all black no vynil roof.
This is my point. Would I rather it have matching numbers? Absolutely. Can I afford one with matching numbers, probably not. Again, I'm not buying to resell. I guess I was looking for someone on this board to say that it was a smokin deal. Glad you guys were here to tell me otherwise. Anybody have a numbers matching 70 stage 1 they would care to sell for $4000 and an 87 GN with 59k miles and original paint?
My perspective: Don't totally discount resale value. You mention you aren't buying to resell, and youre not, but things change. A numbers matching 'regular' 455 will appreciate more than a Stage one pedigreed car with incorrect parts, especially the engine, which you can't just buy. A clone can be a great toy....
Ok guys, got a line on another car. 70 GS 455. Supposedly has original motor, and th400 trans. Car is rusty, but all there. Motor has a spun bearing, and hasn't been run in a long time. Non air car, but has disc brakes, buckets, and floor shift. Car is very close to me, so I'm gonna try and look at it tomorrow night. Comes with an extra 455. Can you guys tell me where to look for the numbers for the drivetrain? I really want to make sure this thing is legit. He says the undercarriage is solid, but around the windows is rusty, as are the fenders, hood, quarters, and trunk. Also, do the non stage cars have special carbs/ distributors? Any help would be appreciated on this. Tim
I think it depends on who you’re playing to. The non-Buick folks usually won't bat an eye at a base GS or GS455 car. I know, because I was one of them. However, the mighty Stage 1 is a different animal. This car was built to carry the flag for Buick on the street and on Saturday Night at the local tracks. It has a well defined legacy and has earned its place in history. Think of the difference between a 69 350 Camaro and a Z-28. The first was built for the masses and the other was built to run. And what about the Olds 442 and the W-30? All of these cars were “purpose built” for performance and are very special...especially to those of us who have memories of them from the glory days. The whole matching numbers thing is a phenomenon started by the Corvette guys (NCRS) who are mostly “investor types”. They seem more interested in a cars worth, rather than how well it runs. That’s a totally perversion of the Corvette linage. Yes the original drive train adds value to any Musclecar...but lets face it, a huge percentage of these cars were blown up, doing exactly what the were built to do. So...as a certifiable car nut, I'm going to spend my time and resources on the cars which were factory built for ME…The Motor Head. Value be damned! How's that for a rant:laugh:
Well, I got to go look at the 70 GS tonight. The car is rough, but its all there. With the exception of the roof, and the floors, most of the sheetmetal will need replaced. Car is optioned really weird. Has buckets, console, 3 spoke rally steering wheel, pwr windows, pwr door locks, pwr driver's seat, pwr disc brakes, speed alert, and no a/c. I was told the car was ordered that way. The original owner had the 3.42s replaced with a set of 4.30s because he felt it would tow his camper better. The numbers on the block appear to match the vin, but I could not verify the trans or rear. Car is gold with no vinyl roof, and white bucket seat interior. Its been sitting in an old garage on a dirt floor since the mid 80s. The damp air really got to everything. Even the bottom of the dash shows some light rust. It comes with another 72-73ish 455 which appears to have low mileage. The funny thing is, as bad as it is, I absolutely love it. Even though it appears to need everything. I should be bringing it home tomorrow. I'll have to wait to get it home before I determine if its worth saving or not. If anyone cares, I'll post pics once its home. Tim
Way to go Tim! Car sounds good. Some people think the only car worth buying is a GS Stage 1 ,that is not true. A GS 455 is a factory Bigblock car and is very special as well. As long as it's a BigBlock car life is Good! Hope you get the car. What paint code of gold,Cornet ,Harvest or Desert?
I would like to see some pics. I found a GS350 that's nice and rusty. The wife still trying to figure out my problem. The car is painted up like a GSX. Friends thought I bought a real GSX basket case.
I should be picking it up tonight. I couldn't sleep at all night last night thinkin about it. I got outa bed at 6am to get the trailer hooked up. I'm not sure of the paint code. I was so busy trying to get the numbers off the block, that I totally forgot to look at the cowl tag. By the way Rich, I loved your bamboo cream 70. Probably my favorite color combo on a GS.
Our wives will never understand.o No: I called my wife after I left the guy's house and told her the car was a complete disaster, and I had no choice but to buy it. :grin: She asked me why, and when I told her what I'm paying for it, she kinda understood. I think she's a little more understanding then most. Post a couple of pics of yours, and I'll try to get a couple of mine on tonight. Tim
