Hi, I'm finishing up assembling my first girdled 455. I'm running the crower/TA crank and a stock oil pan with some added baffling. As you all know, the girldle moves the pan down, thus I should have increased my oil capacity. Dipstick is unusable due to interferences. Anybody know how many quarts of oil I should use? Thanks in advance for any feedback. Ben
Might want to consider filling as you would have without the girdle, five quarts...thus keeping the oil away from the reciprocating assembly. Devon
Is this the stock pan with the notch out of the back for the exhaust Xross over? TA crank, girdle, something tells me if you have those 2 parts there is most likely, cam, aluminum heads, oil mods, rpm. Most likely will have a hard time keeping oil on the bearings with 5 Quarts. If I was building it I would be putting a bigger pan on it...Chris
Totally agree Chris! A stock pan, even with baffles installed is very marginal for anything except "cruising". Any high performance driving of any kind warrants an improved oil system and that definitely includes "oil control" with the oil pan. I'm a firm believer that many bearing related mishaps can be attributed to lack of oil control. (I.E. pumping air instead of oil!) Steve
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I intend to run at least 6 quarts. The pan has been heavily modified internally for oil control, but it has not had additional sump volume added. But the thickness of the girdle naturally adds an inch or so to the pan depth. I calculate this is equivalent to a bit over a quart considering the sump is approximatley an 8" square. Yes, the motor is modified, all oil system mods in place, big heads, etc. I do not agree with Steve in that a stock pan is only good for cruising. I've seen many a stock pan make successful passes. Not as good as an aftermarket pan, of course, but sometimes we have to stop somewhere... $450 for a pan seemed steep to me. Looks like nobody has ran a girlde with a stock pan, which concerns me in itself, so perhaps I won't find the answer to my question.
If you will race this more oil capacity is a must. I run a modified "stock" pan, deeper and alittle wider. How do you figure that the thickness of the girdle will add to the oil capacity?? The girdle will not change the depth, the bottom of the pan to the front/rear sealing surface of the pan stays the same..It'll just move the same quantity 1 inch farther away from the rotating assy. You could take a milk jug, 1 gallon, and fill the pan with water to see how many quarts it can hold. 6 quarts is not enough, Buicks have bad oil systems, so why not have more, to prevent oil starvation, help in cooling, and cushion the bearings while beating on it. And yes, there are forum issues that you may have to figure out on your own, I've asked many questions, some get answered, some you just figure it out and post your results, if you want to share. Gary G.
I didn't say "a stock pan is only good for crusing", I said that it "is very marginal for anything except "cruising". Marginal meaning that you may get by, but I personally wouldn't take that chance. People will tend to spend money on things they think they need and then stop short on the things they really need to help a Buick engine survive. I mean no "Ill Will" by these statements, I'm just speaking form many years of experience. These are just my opinions though, everyone is entitled to their own. If you run the modified stock pan configuration, I would run 6 qts of oil. Any more than that and you'll be flirting with foaming and or aeration. Thanks, Steve
No disrespect to you but Steve is the oil pan master. You can search (SRE) here IMO no one makes nicer oil pans then Steve. You have alot of money invested in your engine already what is another $450 to make sure you don't suck the pan dry? Even if you use the 67-68 oil pan that doesn't have the notch at the back and fill it to the full line it will still most likely come up short. Not only will more oil help feed your BBB but it is also an extension of your coolant system which is needed especially if you used hard block. I'm not sure what combo's these guys have that you have seen but many have tried this with bad out comes. Chris
Hi Gary, The girdle does add about another quart because it moves the pan down 1 inch there for in order to fill the pan to the full mark on the dip stick it will require more oil to do so. That said if you use a high capacity pan you could run it on the add mark to keep the oil away from the crank like Devon said. Chris
Putting a stock pan on that is foolish. You want as much oil reserve and it also helps keep the crankshaft out of the oil. Good luck!
You're right Chris, I don't run a dipstick so I forgot about that....Why spend $450, you can buy a piece of sheet metal for like $10 and make your pan deeper or wider, just find someone to weld it, or do it youself... Gary
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I can certainly modify the pan myself. Before hand, to satisfy my curiosity, I'm going to fill the pan to a level a bit below the crank/rod swing and measure the volume. I'd think it safe to assume that if the oil level is a bit below the rotating assembly at rest, the motor is 'full'. If any of you are curious, check back and I'll post my findings. I'm going to stick my neck out and guess that it's more like 7 quarts. Ben
And thanks for the tip on SRE, I had not heard of them, I'll search around and find a web page to check them out. Ben
That's good, because if it was, you would need an alum oil pan to dissapate the oil heat. How fast do you project that car to be? What's the motor build (more specifically than you have stated). What's the intended use? JW
Hi Jim, Stage IISE heads, fully ported, cam is custom, about 250 @.050, 114 LCA, installed about 6 degrees advanced. Full TA front cover/oiling system & oiling mods to block. 9:1 custom Ross pistons, forged RPM I-beam rods, crower crank = 523 inches. Block has bottom end girdle and lifter bore girdle. And here's where it gets fun: procharge F1. Goal: to have fun building the Buick motor of my dreams (finally!) & make a ton of reliable power without having to spin the motor too fast and break things. And that's the key, this motor will never see much over 6000 RPM. I'll start things out with a mild blower pully setup and see what the chassis can handle. I only go to the strip for fun, I'm not competitive with it. The car will also be driven to the occasional burger joint, all just for fun. As for quarter mile time, I don't really have a goal in mind, but I'll be tire/chassis limited. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. Ben
A man after my own heart, very cool build. About the last 5 or 6 years I have been wanting to do a procharger set-up, I should have the TA block by the beginning of the year, gearing up for a F2 deal. Spend the money and put a good aluminum pand on it. Cool Ride:TU: Chris
Um. Just because you lower the pan an inch, doesn't necessarily translate into additional volume capacity. By the logic you are using, if one were able to lower the pan six inches and use the same dipstick, you would need to fill the pan above the level of the gasket and then up the girdle/adapter until the oil level reaches the full mark. The only way to actually increase the capacity and use the same dipstick is to retain the pan in the same position relative to the distance between the rails on the pan and the centerline of the crank is to use a pan that has additional room in the sump. That can be accomplished by deepening the sump itself, moving the sides of the sump out from their stock location or both. Once that is done, calculate the additional capacity of the sump, add five quarts, then add that amount of oil with a new filter to an empty sump. Start the engine, filling the filter. Then pull the dipstick, wipe and replace. Pull it again and mark the top of the oil on the stick. This is your REAL full mark. One other thing to be sure of is that you extend the oil pickup tube an amount nearly equal to the additional spacing of the bottom of the sump. That will keep the intake close to the bottom of the sump, helping to ensure it stays covered with oil when things start sloshing around. Check it with putty and assemble the pan/girdle/oil pickup tube without gaskets to be sure of correct rather than just sufficient clearance.
I think you need to read the whole thread to get a understanding of the big picture here, I have been talking about two different factory pans. With out the girdle one has a 5 qt capacity and the 67-68 or the repo TA1511C oil pan holds 6 qts, the girdle adds 1 inch that means with 6 qts no matter how you look at it the oil level moves 1 inch away from the crank. The stock dip tip stick has an add mark that is 1 qt below the full mark. Both these factory pans are the same other than the notch at the lower back side of the pan. My modified stock pan holds about 7.5 qts on the add mark without a girdle. With the TA girdle you don't bolt the pick-up to the factory location, the girdle extends that also 1 inch but regardless no matter what you should always tape of the pick-up and clay it just to double check. My concern here is that the pan that Ben is using is going to hold about 5 qts of oil, that is not enough to keep the bearings happy in his 523. I have a 494 stock appearing engine that I built 3 years ago came back for a cam swap and more compression and I will be check some rod bearings to see how things look after using a stock pan. Chris
