No fluid coming out of master cylinder to the rear brakes

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by 00kidd, Nov 19, 2017.

  1. 00kidd

    00kidd Active Member

    1971 Buick Skylark Custom 350/2 barrel, 4 door with factory front disk brakes.

    I bought new:
    Master Cylinder, Centric 130.62001 (new, premium, for front disks)
    Power brake booster A1 Cardone 5471106 (remanufactured)
    Combination/Proportioning valve with bleeding tool
    Disks, pads, and hoses up front
    Wheel cylinders, drums, shoes, springs, and hose in the rear.

    This has been a week long process trying to diagnose but I think we are finally narrowing it down and would like some guidence. When we bench bleed the master cylinder we get fluid out of the front and rear ports. However when its on the car, 99% of the time we don't get any fluid out the rear port on the master cylinder. I mean, port wide open, no line attached to it, pumping the brakes, and nothing comes out. The brake pedal has full travel. I'm thinking it has to be related to the pushrod in the brake booster or something being out of adjustment. Any ideas? As far as I can tell the push rod on my booster isn't adjustable. Wrong part perhaps? I'll be working on it today and try to get some measurements.
     
  2. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Look at the back of the master and compare it to your old one. Is the receiving cup in the back of the new master deeper that the original one? If the receiving cup is deeper on the new one, it will make the pushrod travel father before reaching the back of the master. And then it may only have enough travel to start applying the front brakes.
     
  3. 00kidd

    00kidd Active Member

    I'm afraid I don't have the old MC anymore. It was leaking on the garage floor so I tossed it. I do still have the old booster though. From what I noticed bench bleeding, fluid seemed to be coming out of the rear port as soon as the piston was depressed.
     
  4. 00kidd

    00kidd Active Member

    I bought another master cylinder at auto zone today to test it, a new Duralast model number NM1521. I bench bleed it and put it on. I opened the rear bleeder ports and pumped the brakes for several minutes and not a single drop of fluid came out the rear. Thinking there may be a blockage I disconnected the rear hard line where it goes into the rubber section and blew air through it. It sprayed air out of the bleeder ports. Then I disconnected the rear hardline coming out of the combination valve and blew air through there and it sprayed a bunch of fluid out of the rear where it was still disconnected. Then I blew air up through the combination valve (with the master cylinder removed) and it sprayed fluid all over the engine bay. So all of the lines are clear, no blockages. I put the new master cylinder back on but left the rear line coming out of the combination valve and had my wife pump the brakes several time and no air or fluid came out. Then I removed the rear line going into the combination valve and had her pump some more and got a few drops and sputters. I'm at a loss and getting pretty frustrated.
     
  5. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Lets take a step back here. Try something for me so I can get my head wrapped around this...

    First, let me ask a dumb question because I don't know your experience- Are you bench bleeding the master correctly? In a vise with the correct bench bleeding kit? And your pushing the piston all the way in till you get no bubbles? Ok, put a freshly bled master on the car. I say freshly bled because I want to make sure the master didn't suck air back into it during your diagnostics.

    Have some one pump up the master. Do you get any sort of a pedal? Once its pumped up, crack the line AT THE MASTER. do you get any fluid? Bleed it at the master with the front and back and let me know the results.
     
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    The combination valve should have a rubber boot on one end. Under that boot is a stem that needs to be pushed down when you are bleeding the brakes. You can use a C clamp to push the stem in. That part of the combination valve is the hold off valve. It holds off pressure in the front brakes until a certain pressure is built up in the rear brake lines.

    If I was you, I would bench bleed the master, attach the lines, and then open all the bleeders at each corner of the car. Let it gravity bleed a little. Then close off the bleeders and bleed each wheel the conventional way.

    CombinationValve.JPG
     
  7. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    What doesn't make any sense is hes not even getting this far. He's got nothing coming out of the rear port of the master even though it bench bleeds fine. And this is the second master
     
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    It should gravity bleed though. Sometimes, that's what it needs to get going. Worth a try.
     
  9. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I guess if fluid was actually coming out of the master
     
  10. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    If he is bench bleeding it until he sees no bubbles, then fluid is coming out.
     
  11. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Until he puts it on the car. Odd....
     
    GSX 554 likes this.
  12. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Sometimes the lines have too much air in them. That is why sometimes gravity bleeding works. Fill the master, bench bleed it, connect the lines, and open all the bleeders. Wait until it starts dripping at each corner. Then close the bleeders and bleed each corner conventionally. I'd depress that pin in the combination valve as well. Worth a shot? Nothing else has worked.:)
     
  13. GSX 554

    GSX 554 Gold Level Contributor

    If he is "Pumping " the pedal like he says with the line disconnected he is sucking air back into the master. Larry is right. Bench bleed completely then gravity bleed at every connection. Plus is he going by the instructions with MC that tell you that you can put plugs in the MC outlets and bleed it that way ?? You need to attach a line and direct it back into the master fluid to be sure there are NO bubbles.
     
  14. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    That's why I asked him how exactly he was blench bleeding it. I don't get the fact that he's getting fluid out of the master on the bench but not out of the master on the car. Again, at the master, no fluid on the car
     
  15. GSX 554

    GSX 554 Gold Level Contributor

    Yeah Jason . not enough info. The last couple of MC I've seen provide instruction about using tubes to direct fluid from the outlet back to the reservoir . Or a alternate is to use plugs in the outlet and bench bleed it that way ?????? Thats stupid.
     
  16. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    And cheaper:D:D Last few masters I've used came with the plastic lines and fittings. Easy bench bleed.
     
    GSX 554 likes this.
  17. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Funny, I bought my bench bleeding kit 25 years ago from a guy I worked with at Goodyear. Its looking a little rough these days but it still works like a charm. Made by Thexton. Ole reliable....
     
  18. GSX 554

    GSX 554 Gold Level Contributor

    I have a bunch of metal lines with different fittings bent to reach the reservoir . I just watch the end of the line while its in the fluid
     
  19. gstewart

    gstewart Well-Known Member

    Anyone ever have the hold down valve not unload after bleeding the rears? I did and could not get it to release no matter what I tried. Even pushing/pounding hard
    on the brake pedal. Purchased new prop valve.
     
  20. gsfred

    gsfred Founders Club Member

    Is the rod from the booster the correct length? May not be getting enough travel I've seen that before when changing out masters.
     
    DasRottweiler and Mark Demko like this.

Share This Page