New Build, No Oil Pressure Om Pre Lube!

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by CanadianBird, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    it will get hot on breakin the rings are still tight. and if its not missing. you can conclude its probably not a valve train problem. do you have the exhaust hooked up? ive experienced open headers that sometimes sound like a deep main knock at idle. whenever you started the engine did you immediately rev the engine to 2000? or did you let it idle. if you let it idle for more than a few seconds there may be concern for the cam.
    what kind of vacuum is it pulling. who set the lifter preload? what kind of rockers are on your engine? adjustable? if it has good oil pressure but a bearing is knocking. the whole thing will have to be taken apart and clearences checked. im betting that its a tc bolt. or a flywheel bolt. but since it wont idle i donno hard to say over the internet without listening to it run. can you make a good video?
     
  2. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    I went immediately to 2000 RPM. Got about 10 mins max started and shut down 3 times total. It all seems like a blurr now but when I let off the gas it would just stop like someone unplugged the blender and it was probably closer to 1000-1200 rpm. Also very difficult to turn over on start up, however all new, high comp pistons...maybe normal.

    The TC bolt may be a possibility. I remember being confused when tightening up the TC bolts, did I just turn clockwise?? or was it the other way.

    Exhaust system all bolted up. At 1st I thought that maybe I did not tighten bolts on drivers side.

    Took off the VC, all looks good. Will re check the TC bolts tomorrow.
     
  3. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    what did yout the timing at when you put the rpms up? hard cranking sounds like to far advanced timing. or weak battery.
     
  4. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Re: New Build, No Oil Pressure On Pre Lube!

    If I back it off (counter clockwise right? ) It will not start. I had the timing light and an rpm gauge under hood...somewhere around 10 degree from what I could tell. But I only let it slow down fast enough to have a quick glance...I will re check tomorrow as I can dial in my timing light.
     
  5. bammax

    bammax Well-Known Member

    Higher compression with an old starter can also lead to some hard starting.
     
  6. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    Re: New Build, No Oil Pressure On Pre Lube!

    No, turning the distributor counterclockwise is advancing ignition timing, making a hard-starting problem worse.

    Devon
     
  7. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Thanks Devon.
     
  8. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Ok...I checked TC bolts, all snug. I took VC off, no loose or bent pushrods, springs, rocker arms etc all look good. I disconnected my coil to ensure no start and turned over my engine to observe rocker movement, all visually were operating ok.

    I backed off the timing and wanted to restart. NO SPARK. I assume that turning the engine over with the coil plug wire disconnected is either bad for my coil or bad for my petronix! Anyone get this before?

    I am hoping that retarding the timing may make that noise go away. As I believe my initial timing was dialled in way too high. (Hard start, engine died as soon as I let off the gas idle and running hot)
     
  9. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    it shouldnt hurt anything cranking the engine with the coil unplugged. i would make sure you have everything plugged in. get a test light.
    check for power on the positive side of the coil.
    if cranking it with the coil wire off would burn the pertronix or your coil up i would never use that kind again.

    check the simple things first cap rotor and wires. did you test the spark or are you assuming there is no spark since it didnt start?
     
  10. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Turned the lights down low, played some Barry White, pulled the boot, trun engine over n watch for spark jump from plug to wire. Nuttin. Will check details tomorrow.:TU:
     
  11. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Valve hitting piston??? I guess that really should not be there! I entered through spark plug hole, tried to line up camera as well as I could so top of pic would be @ 12 o clock. Odd that only that one would be an issue. I only checked this as this was where the noise was coming from, I checked one more on same bank looks good.
     

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  12. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    thats what it looks like to me. take the rocker arms up. get a straightedge and put it across the valve tips and see if that valve is low. if it is, inspect the retainer and try to gently tap it down or side to side and see if it is loose in the valve guide. something is wrong, luckily it quit sparking maybe that saved your butt on this. ask your mechanic if he checked ptv clearance. but with only 1 valve doing it. i would think that something is either wrong with the valve spring retainer and what not. i would be very unhappy at the engine builder at this point....
     
  13. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    sorry. take the rocker arms OFF
     
  14. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Man none of those tips really line up. My gauge read from 1st to last #1 cyl to#7. Including straight edge so it's the diff between each...plus only had a 12 in straight edge so would not sit accoss all...that last one is def sitting lower, but retainers look snug...

    .937, .938, .938, .944, .950, .954, .950, .980 (includes height of straight edge)


    so with .938 being my base and that last valve at the end, the suspect one being at .980 , that last valve tip is lower by .042...
     
  15. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    I would get a few adjustable pushrods and use them on the noisey lifters... It is not good however as you now know it is common for machine shops to do inconsistent work because many engines have an adjustable valve train....
     
  16. 64SkyConvert

    64SkyConvert 1964 300 ci

    Equalized valve heights on the 300 engine are important. That said, my old engine was running just fine with massive differences in valve heights....at least it did until it pulled the rocker pedestals out of the aluminum heads.

    I really hope you didn't have valve contact. Any chance the cam was not degreed properly (do you have a multi-keyway crank gear?. Wouldn't a compression test be the easiest way to confirm valve/piston contact (assuming the valve is bent now)?

    You might want to take a deep breath and pull the timing cover to confirm cam timing before you run that engine... I cannot believe that you would get valve contact only due to one valve being seated lower than the others, but I haven't seen everything yet... others here have, I am sure.
     
  17. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    What appears to be a nick in the piston doesn't seem to be in the correct spot for a valve to hit it. I would think it would be more centered between nipple and outer rim. I'm not entirely familiar with the 300.

    That being said what 11:1 pistons are they? I would think to get 11:1 out of a 300 they would have to basically be flattops and that they should have valve notches in them. That is assuming they are aftermarket. The only way to know your actual compression is to measure it. The cam you have doesn't have big lift but I'm sure from the factory it was much less. So a factory cam may have cleared factory pistons.

    Other than the .980 valve the heights look good. Even that would not be a disaster because a hydralic lifter is meant to compensate for a broad range. However the reason it may be so deep is because the valve may be bent from the possible impact. The bent valve would keep it from seating all the way.

    I'd pop the plugs out right away and do quick compression test. That will tell the tale. No need to be running it. If you have good compression then at least that is good.

    If you do have a bent valve but there are no other witness marks on any other pistons then maybe a pushrod was not seated in the rocker or lifter cup. All it takes at that point is one starter revolution to do the damage. Bent valve. Been there, done that. If you do find a bent valve I'd do a valve to piston clearance check. You need around to be safe .080".

    If it is a bent valve you will feel it as a shake to the engine as you rev it up a bit, easily by 2000 rpm.
     
  18. CanadianBird

    CanadianBird Silver Level contributor

    Did the comp test...all good. Builder came over tonight...lifters are not holding pressure, made me bump the engine over with VC off and you can watch the rockers tip back from the spring pressure of the valve. He thought he put 5w 30 in my engine and maybe a heavier oil would resolve. He will be calling the peeps he got the lifters from... VVT?? And mentioned that he would prefer to change the lifters. At least it's not a bottom end issue and my engine does not need to come out again!

    Thanks for the guidance and input from the board members. I appreciate the help and support. Cheers.
     
  19. 462 Chevelle

    462 Chevelle 462 chevelle

    i doubt all of the lifters are bleeding off but you never know. i would almost bet that the pushrods arent long enough.. but without seeing it for sure with my own eyes its hard to say.
     
  20. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs

    If the valve did hit the piston it could mean that the valve guide is too tight and the valve got stuck and hit the piston. With the lifters bleeding down I have seen this on my engine and I solved this problem with buying Comp Cams pro magnum lifters, they won't bleed down.

    Why would the engine builder use 5w-30w oil when these motors all used 13-30 oil? Also if the engine is getting that hot on break in it is because something is wrong somewhere else.

    If piston rings are causing a overheating problem then they are not set right. When my engine was on the dyno it got ran to 5500 rpm after break in and there was no overheating problem and I had replace everything in the engine.
     

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