new block

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by buick535, Nov 9, 2004.

  1. Rick Henderson

    Rick Henderson Well-Known Member

    And I am sure the increase in power will surely overcome the extra weight :Brow:
     
  2. MR.BUICK

    MR.BUICK Guest

    Wow, now that is an engine. I salute and honor the people who put effort into that engine. Job worth wait and while, now all I have to do is quit my paper route, get a real job, and buy one of those blocks. Very well done :bglasses: :TU:
     
  3. Bobb Makley

    Bobb Makley Well-Known Member

    Kerry

    The plan is to have it at PRI. It should be finished barring any major problems. In fact there is a chance it might be at a Christmas party somewhere the week before if all goes well we shall see. :TU: .
     
  4. buick535

    buick535 Well-Known Member



    Her's some preliminary figures on weight.
    The cleaned up casting as you have seen pictured weighs right at 350 to 360 pounds. We figure after machining, the final weight of the block will be around 300 to 310 pounds.
    Now when you figure a stock Buick block with hard block , partial fill weighs 200 pounds, then add about 25 for a main girdle and aprox 20 for a cam girdle, you end up around 245 ro 250.
    A taller fill will be somewhat heavier.
    So even if we are talking 50 pounds heavier, so what. What do you want , a light block or a strong block, Weight as far as I am concerned has never been a factor here.

    We'll have some final weights after machining.

    It took 400 pounds of cast iron for the block pour.

    SO even with the heavier block, add alum heads and intake, we still have an engine that is lighter than the original stock 455 that came in our cars.

    I know Dick has told me that on the Indy chrysler blocks, going up to the 4.5 inch bore from the stock bore was right at 20 pounds difference.
    Seeing the bottom end of this thing, I seriously doubt anyone is going to break it. Jim Burek
     
  5. Woodie

    Woodie Well-Known Member

    Seeing the bottom end of this thing, I seriously doubt anyone is going to break it. Jim Burek[/QUOTE]

    Sounds like a challenge...
     
  6. nailheadina67

    nailheadina67 Official Nailheader

    Jim, that is awesome.........hard work always pays off big...........it kinda makes me want to swap out my Nailhead......naw, just kidding. :laugh:
     
  7. Craig Balzer

    Craig Balzer Well-Known Member

    Weight of the New Block

    Jim

    I am by no means a metallurgist or automotive design engineer, so this may be a totally ludicrous question. But, if the new block weighs more than folks think it ought to or more than they would like it to, what would happen if the mold was poured with aluminum instead of cast iron? Lighter? Most certainly. Just as strong? I dont know; and it may require cylinder sleeves that add enough weight to make the whole thing unjustifiable or add a new weak spot. And of course this may (or may not) adjust the price up into a range that is truly beyond reach.

    Many cars today sport aluminum engines, but they are putting out 100s less horsepower.

    Just a thought.

    Craig
     
  8. Dave Mongeon

    Dave Mongeon Well-Known Member

    Block wieghts

    Stock block , halo main and lifter girdle full fill (no water) bout as heavy as they can get , 241 lbs . That means 60-70lbs on the frt end to me .
    Will it be possible to take more out of it ? The Indy Cast iron mega block is only 245 lbs with similar dimensions ?
     

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  9. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    The 4.5 bore should take out about 20 lbs. (according to Jim)

    The reduced diameter mains makes for a heavier block, but the crank will be lighter.

    Depending on the combination the deck is thick enough to take 1/4 inch off, which would also make for a lighter rod/piston combo, and shorter push rods.

    The lifter valley won't need to be filled.

    Pan rails can be milled for stroker combos.

    I"ve seen top fuel blocks that were put on a serious diet. I'd guess there are places that material can be removed without affecting the strength.


    And lastly, my cars are so heavy it won't matter! :laugh:
     
  10. buick535

    buick535 Well-Known Member



    Ok, I made a mistake on the info I posted earlier. The raw casting block before machining comes in at right around 300 pounds, not 350.
    After maching, the expected weight of the block should be in the 250 to 260 range. This is right in line with other aftermarket blocks out there.
    Incidentally, the Indy block weighs 270, the 245 version is after Indy performs a lightening proceedure on it where they cut away a lot of extra stuff. Read that extra expense too.

    Believe me, the weight of this thing will come down after machining, as cast right now, the bores are only 4 inches.
    SO what do you think Dave, this should keep you from having to go to a big block chevy in order to go faster , no? Jim Burek
     
  11. nailheadina67

    nailheadina67 Official Nailheader

    I'm starting to get some ideas here :Brow: How cool would it be to put one of these blocks and some heads under a stock manifold and valve covers, even the stock black air cleaner, totally stock looking, and going out and blowing the doors off everything in sight........tell 'em "yeah, all I got is a cam and some stronger springs" :laugh:
     
  12. ATX

    ATX Guest

    Well, the block won't make your engine any stronger as far as HP goes... it is just able to take more power. I don't think you can put a set of stock looking heads and manifold on that block and even scratch the surface of how much it can take. A big turbo and a great tune would be a perfect judge to see what it is made of (that is if you have a rotating assembly up to the task)... :3gears:
     
  13. MPRY1

    MPRY1 Gear Banger

    Well, if you take it out to 572" and bolt a highly ported stock manifold (like what Gessler uses) and some painted aluminum heads I'd say you could make a whole lot more power then stock and not many people would be able to tell what it really was. :Brow:
     
  14. nailheadina67

    nailheadina67 Official Nailheader

    Ohhh, 572 cubic inches.........stroked and poked.......and still looks stock........and a nice quiet exhaust..........it is a very tempting thought. :Brow:
     
  15. buick535

    buick535 Well-Known Member




    No No NO! Not 572. Chevy has a 572, we'll have a 573.
    They have a 454, we have a 455.
    They came out with the 572 because their 502 was not the biggest baddest thing out there. They figured 572 should keep them on top for awhile.
    Well then lo and behold someone comes along and starts offering 573 inch Buick crate motors. heh, heh, heh,. You gotta love it. Jim Burek
     
  16. nailheadina67

    nailheadina67 Official Nailheader

    Believe me, I DO!! :bglasses:
     
  17. alan

    alan High-tech Dinosaur

    Should a 496 then round up to a 497? :grin:
     
  18. jdustu

    jdustu Beached whale

    the casting process is completely different and it would require a different type of mold.....ect.....
     
  19. Earick Racing

    Earick Racing Member

    We were involved with GM years ago to test the aluminum and cast iron Pro Stock blocks. With all other aspects of the 500 cid Pro Stock engines identical, the cast iron blocks made 30 more HP at the time.
     
  20. jdustu

    jdustu Beached whale

    i might not have a clue what i'm talking about, but wouldn't the aluminum block have to be designed differently to make up for the difference in strenght? and due to the different properties of a cast iron as opposed to analuminum block, wouldn't the "aspects" need relative to which material was being used, rather than identical? And in certain applications(such as pure drag racing) wouldn't the major benifit that cast iron has( strength) outway the major benifits of aluminum(weight and heat dissapation), but in a performance street car/road race car wouldn't the aluminum(such as a c5r) block be the better choice for the ability to run better at higher temps?
    :Do No:
     

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