My Bad Luck, Should I order a new Block??

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by badbuik, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Well, I cleaned up my block to reassemble the 470 ci "bullet" after I finally got my Moldex crankshaft, and guess what?????? The damn block is cracked! I have pics. I can send them to someone to "post" them for me, I hope someone can, and keep the quality so the cracks show up. The block is partial fill with hard block, and the cracks are on the #3 & #4 main bearing saddles, straight across the face, about 1 inch below the stud, and the crack by #4 actually goes down into the #5 piston bore about 3 inches. I talked to Rick C., he figures a good welding shop could repair the areas, I have another friend who saw the pics. and says it's junk! So hopefully I can send the pics to someone to put them into this thread, and then tell me what you think. I can sorta throw together a stg 2 motor just to go racing, and wait for a new block to build a new "bullet proof" 470, moldex cranked nitrous motor. I'm pretty depressed, I just finished talking to the editor of Car Craft Magazine, he was coming over to shoot a story of me putting my motor back together, he was pretty excited too, would have been pretty cool "highlighting" a Nitrous BBBuick build. I actually have been rethinking all this Buick stuff, gets frustrating maintaining "buick loyality".....
    Gary G.
    I have 2 pics ready to send if you can help me out. Thanks.
     
  2. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    So now you have a new crank with 3.25 mains and will have to have it cut down for the new block? :Dou: Your in so deep now, just buy the block. Keep it Buick powered, i'd say. Just not with a stock block. Good luck!
     
  3. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member


    I'll be happy to put up the best resolution the site will allow-- send em on!
    Frank
    fbrooks@austin.rr.com
     
  4. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Thanks Frank. Just sent you the 2 pics. Good luck.
    Gary G.
     
  5. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member

    Here are Gary's pics:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. stage2man

    stage2man Well-Known Member

    Looks like its time for a new block to me. Bummer
     
  7. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    Gary
    What were you using for torque on the mains?
     
  8. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    The torque I'm pretty sure 100 / 110 ft lbs. whatever the main girdle directions called for.

    Gary
     
  9. JEFF STRUBE

    JEFF STRUBE Well-Known Member

    Not good that Suck's

    You are have some bad look i was there last year. If it was me i would site on the Side line's till these winter's and then decide what you are going to do.You will not like going slower. Take some time to think about what you want to do. Come out with a new Block or a useed virgin block next year. or Blow the $$$ and get a different Block and $$$ we get into these block to try to get them to live is like throwing money in the Trash. Just my two cents Sorry to here about your Block. I have been on the side line cents Dec 2004 Ruiting for the team.
     
  10. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Hey Jeff. Like I said VERY FRUSTRATING!! Still trying to decide what to do. I agree, I will not enjoy going slower, I think that the stg 2 I could throw together would run in the 11 second range, going from Low 9s' to that will seem more like a drive cross country than racing.
    Gary G.
     
  11. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Gary,
    while you are waiting for that new block, work on that bumpsteer. Your avitar shows like it needs to be addressed?
     
  12. john massoud

    john massoud 2nd Fastest REAL Stage 1

    Cracked Block

    Gary it looks like the cracks both started at the end of the oil grooves that you milled in the block,they maybe a little to deep and the block just couldnt take the extra stress, ive never run them grooves in my block and i run real heavy parts (eagle rods bme pistons @ j.e tapper wall pins ) and i spin it hard for these parts so mabye you can look into grooving it less or groove the bearings. my machine didnt like the idea of grooving the block cuz he think the thing is to weak to start.But if i were you id just whip up another block and go racin cuz theres no telling when youll get the other block.(Hope you get it runnig soon cuz i cant wait to see the #S you run cuz i got a big shot kit just waiting to go on my new combo.) good luck
     
  13. stage2man

    stage2man Well-Known Member

    crap, TA routed my mains the same way. I never thought it would make it weaker when Mike talked me into it. :Dou:
     
  14. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Well, that is a mod. from TA. Not at all a "slam" against them, it was suggested as a helpful oil mod.........May just throw a stg. 2 together, but no nitrous, still trying to figure it out.
    That "bump steer" thing, I never gave the car a front end alignment after yanking the 300 ci, car does go straight down the track, but I will have the alignment done correctly if I can find the right shop to do it. Thanks.
    Gary G.
     
  15. JEFF STRUBE

    JEFF STRUBE Well-Known Member

    John might be right never thought about it making the Block weak. We have had these done on the main saddles. I was thinking did it get alot of detonation. What where you using for Gas on the motor and to Spray it.
     
  16. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    oil groove is fine...

    The crack starts from the because of where the bottom of the stud is. the groove has nothing to do with the crack. If you where to extend the stud threads in the block and use a longer stud, the crack would just start from a higher spot. I say weld it!! What do you have to loose??? If you weld a block and it works, then it will be the best thing that ever happened. Most guys find cracks after they tear their motors down and never know how long they've been there. For what it costs to setup/machine a Buick race block, you better believe I'd weld mine. It just takes the right welder guy! :TU:
     
  17. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Gary,
    I would suggest find a real good super stock guy to help setup that front end, they know how to squeeze every once out of everthing. Just thought I would point it out, there is ET and mph there. I would say from that shot of your car yours looks pretty extreme, even if its going straight.
     
  18. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Gary,

    What happened to this engine that you had to rebuild? Was there any previous damage? Is the block girdled? What parts were previously used? Steel rods? Heavy or light? What could you tell us?

    The pictures are very interesting. I have heard of blocks breaking in these areas if excessive torque was use. The number I have heard is anything over 100 to 110 ft lbs.

    Thanks
    John
     
  19. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    John, here's the short version; Motor is a 13.6 to 1 comp. 470ci nitrous motor, crank was stock but offset ground (3.90) to run the GRP 7in. aluminum rods, JE Nitrous pistons (light rods & pistons), TA initally did the short block with all oil mods and a partial (3/4) "fill" of hard block, has main, halo, and lifted bore girdles, and a solid cam, TE heads, and I run a Peterson external oil pump, and Moroso vac. pump. In my race weight 3600lb. '65 lark convert. car ran 10.30 @ 138mph, then with the 200 "shot" ran a 9.31 @ 146. Now the reason for having it all apart, after that 9.31 pass, car spit the alt. belt off falling into the belt drive for the external oil pump, and car crossed the finish line and ran about 1 minute with "0" oil press. I was running 10w40 synthetic oil. Grooved and extra oil holes in the main bearings. Took motor apart, bearings were damaged, crank was taken to see about a regrind, found to be cracked around every rod journal, never looked over block, ordered a Moldex crank to replace what I had, got it after 6 1/2 month wait, cleaned up the block to start to put it all back together and that's when I found the cracks. Torque on the Mains and girdle was all per TA instructions. I was running 110 oct. race gas in motor and nitrous system has seperate fuel system using 116, there were a total of 30 passes on this motor and some run time on a stand to break it in. Plugs didn't show detonation but figure that there was. I shifted this motor at 6800 on motor and 6500 on the bottle. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I know there are high 8 and low 9 guys out there having success, but not running nitrous, maybe that's the negative factor.

    Gary G.
     
  20. JEFF STRUBE

    JEFF STRUBE Well-Known Member

    Gary what's your email Address so i can IM You
     

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