Man, thats a lotta play. 72 Suncoupe

Discussion in 'Got gears?' started by BrianinStLouis, Sep 20, 2016.

  1. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    So while changing leaking wheel cylinder, I noticed the driver's side axle has a ton of play, both in and out and up and down. The passenger side has zero in and out play but some up and down play.
    I'm sure the fluid I found on the passenger side tire is brake fluid, I don't smell gear oil yet.
    I'll pull the diff cover as soon as I can. What should I look for once the cover is off?
    I'm speaking of a 10 bolt posi here.


    As always, thanks in advance!
     
  2. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    Those are bolt-in axle shafts. I would just unbolt and remove the shafts,and inspect the bearings. Nothing in the center will give you the play at the ends of the shafts.
     
  3. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Even in and out play?
    I just spoke with the previous owner, this is not the original diff. He's unsure what it is. I may unbolt one side and see if the axle comes out. The drivers side is pretty close to the wall in my tiny garage..It may not clear the housing..
     
  4. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Just went down and loosened the backing plate...the axle came right out.

    I'll have to move the car over a bit so I can pull the driver's side axle out....it's worse than the passenger side.
     
  5. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    After you get the bearing removed see if the bearing press on surface of the axle shaft has been worn... hopefully it did not or you will need a new / used axle shaft replacement.

    JIm
    J D
     
  6. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    I just went through this with my 8.5 axle - in my case a wrong axle seal allowed the bearing cage to walk down the race and chew the seal to shreds. Whatever you do from here on out - buy the correct parts from Monzaz (There are alot of out of spec parts labelled with the correct part # floating around out there apparently). Keep us posted please.
     
  7. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    The only time the center would effect in/out play would be if it was a c-clip axle.
    So the previous owner swapped the whole rearend? Do you know what rear is in it now? Whatever the case,the issue is with the axle bearings.
     
  8. jalopi42

    jalopi42 Don't Wait

    so a picture of the outer shaft where the bearing rides ??
     
  9. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    I've been able to get both axles out...I don't see any damage, however the bearings, while they still good to my untrained eye, are not tight on the axle.

    Should they be? I'll get some pics in a few.

    I don't what the diff is out of. It's a 10 bolt, the top and bottom bolts are in the 12 and 6 0'clock position. It's clean and not rusty, I can probably find a number on it....if I knew where to look??
     
  10. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor


    20160922_190240_resized.jpg 20160922_190412_resized.jpg 20160922_190448_resized.jpg

    FWIW....
    Passenger side, drivers side and drivers side.

    BTW,,, If anyone of you guys is missing about one thousand mosquitos, they're in my driveway.
     
  11. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    I notice the one axlw does not have the retainer pressed all the way to the bearing and the other does. I believe they press on right to the bearing to keep them in place. Check out Monaz's website (JDRace), he has a ton of info on rear ID and he is a pleasure to talk to because he explains everything in a way even I can understand!! He also has the bearings and the right seals. He also has used axle shafts and parts.
     
  12. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Took my axles to a local reputable machine shop.
    The axles were good, so I had new bearings pressed on. I have not installed into the housing yet.
     
  13. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Brian - Check the axle seals you put on the new axles. If they have the rounded metal edge like the ones in the pictures, they're NG and you'll be right back where you started. The good Timken seals have a squared edge covered in rubber.
     
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I ran into this same problem years ago when I swapped in my 8.5 10 bolt. It has been covered many times on V8. The difference is the width of the seal. There are thin ones and thicker ones with the same part number. Use the thin ones and end play will be excessive.

    Follow all the links listed in this thread, and see Monzaz's post (#8)

    Measure the seal width. You want the .490" width, NOT .465"

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?220547-End-play&highlight=712146+axle+seals
     
  15. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Thanks Guys..
    Too much going on today to work on the car. The receipt from the shop lists, 2 BCA/A9 bearings and 2 NAS/2146 seals.
    :pray:
     
  16. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor

    Mehhh, looks like I have the round seals.



    20160923_154658_resized.jpg 20160924_114317_resized.jpg 20160924_114357_resized.jpg
     
  17. jalopi42

    jalopi42 Don't Wait

    [​IMG]

    yes i'd think the one he is holding is what you want part #712146 .490 thick for seals not #2146
     
  18. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    The 712146 is the thicker seal.I use that one every time,no matter what.
    The 2146 is the thinner seal,and some parts sources suggest to use that,but don't. You won't have enough overall width or stack,to seat the bearing race into the shoulder of the axle tube.
    If you already have everything pressed on,don't panic.I can send you something to correct that.
     
  19. BrianinStLouis

    BrianinStLouis Silver Level contributor


    Tell me more.
     
  20. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    The original bearings that came in these rears,when they were built,were a straight roller,that ran in a trough,and a straight race.That bearing also had two rings on each side that held the race in place. With this design,the axle could have in & out play and still not effect the function of the bearing or the seal. The ends of the axle tubes were not always machined to the exact depth needed. Some were bored farther,and ended up deeper. This is not a problem with the original bearings,but it is with ALL of the new ones. All of the new replacement bearings,A9/SET9 are a tapered roller. If the race for that bearing goes in too far,then the bearing can't seat firmly against it.This results in excessive play,unseating the bearing off the race,and also allows the axle shaft to pull up on the seal,from the weight of the car,and oil can leak out of the gap created. The other issue is that the tapered roller bearing also had an overall width that is slightly narrower than the original straight roller. The remedy for this is to place a ring inside the tube,to seat against the shoulder,and give something for the race to seat against. This does not change the track width or alter the position of the axle shafts. This helps put them where they are intended. This also helps if you have the narrower 2146 seals. I can send you two rings to install. Just PM me your address.
     

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