Life Expectancy

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by john hixon, Aug 19, 2005.

?

How many 1/4 mile passes did it last before grenaded -or- that you felt compelled to

  1. 1-20 passes

    9 vote(s)
    7.1%
  2. 21-40 passes

    5 vote(s)
    3.9%
  3. 41-50 passes

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  4. 51-60 passes

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  5. 61-70 passes

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. 71-90 passes

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  7. 91-110 passes

    10 vote(s)
    7.9%
  8. 111-120 passes

    3 vote(s)
    2.4%
  9. 121-140 passes

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  10. 141-160 passes

    6 vote(s)
    4.7%
  11. 161-180 passes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. 181-200 passes

    10 vote(s)
    7.9%
  13. 201-220 passes

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  14. 220+ passes

    39 vote(s)
    30.7%
  15. Who can afford to bracket race a Buick?

    28 vote(s)
    22.0%
  1. perry carlini

    perry carlini Well-Known Member

    John:
    Just to satisify my own curiosity, you always left off a two step, right?
    Perry CArlini
     
  2. john hixon

    john hixon Well-Known Member

    Perry,

    Yes. Two step, with the transbrake. Rev limiter at 7K.

    Generally launched btwn 4000 and 4500RPM.

    John
     
  3. BQUICK

    BQUICK Gold Level Contributor

    I don't like leaving off the 2 step. IMO it is hard on the motor. Internal balancing helps....
    A throttle controller (as Mike Pollack uses) seems to be alot easier on things.

    Years back Scott Stern (black 9 sec Regal BBB) was having crank problems and felt that the trans brake 2 step combo was the cause.

    Bruce
     
  4. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    Then there are alot of us using 2-steps w/o any problems to speak of....

    John,
    I know you've had a tough learning curve,I just keep thinking by the amount the car slowed from the first time out that there was something on its way out then.
     
  5. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Perry,

    There are toooo many people out there who use a two step and have no problems so i would have to say its not just the two step that caused Johns engine failure. BUT..... I will say.... if you dont have enough OIL VOLUME getting to the rod bearings then the two step could start to the process of metal transfer between the bearing and the crankshaft.

    After talking with John I believe he had a few different issues that caused his engine failure.

    1. A sub par oiling system.
    2. A camshaft that was too small.
    3. Slightly tight bearing clearances (for me, I like them loose)
    4. The two step surely didn't help the situation.

    Guys,

    We know that a smaller camshaft will create more cylinder pressure than a larger camshaft for any given combination. More cylinder pressure equals more stress on the bearings. If there is more pressure on your bearings then you need more OIL to keep the bearing surface away from the crankshaft surface. If they touch at all.... METAL TRANSFER begins!!! Once this process starts.... it doesn't stop!!!! If you combine not enough oil with a small camshaft and you start beating the bearings even more with a two step then metal transfer will begin.


    Because of this thread we need to start a threat about what can be done to a BB Buick engine to keep it alive!!!!

    Later
     
  6. perry carlini

    perry carlini Well-Known Member

    I wasn't implying that the two step was the problem. I don't use one, but I know a few who do without issues. I have heard the arguement go both ways though. What happened to John is not typical with proper machine work, proper assembly, proper maintenence and set up, and no wierd harmonics going on which may be to blame. Bad luck happens to everyone on occasion and we all know there are some motors out there which make us wonder how they stay together, yet continue to do so.
    Perry Carlini
     
  7. cacmanjr

    cacmanjr Well-Known Member

    Bad luck happens to everyone on occasion and we all know there are some motors out there which make us wonder how they stay together, yet continue to do so.
    Perry Carlini[/QUOTE]

    This seems particularly true of big block Buicks. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what stays together and what doesn't.
     
  8. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    This seems particularly true of big block Buicks. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to what stays together and what doesn't.[/QUOTE]

    Guys,

    I guess this is where I disagree with most people. If an engine is truly correct there is no reason for it to come apart. Especially if the failure is bearing related.

    If you have a 550 hp combo and the lifter galley pops out then I would agree that its dumb luck. Otherwise pull the engine apart and diagnose what caused the failure and try to prevent it from happening again.

    All of the engine issues that I have had can be traced back to a bad initial design or something I did wrong.

    Later :3gears:
     
  9. gymracer01

    gymracer01 Well-Known Member

    Agree!

    I some what agree with John. I have had good luck but it could turn any time. I built a 9 to 1 engine that ran and ran forever. I said well, it was low compression and I never ran it really hard but did drag race it for years and mostly 1/4 mile brackets. That engine was so stock you would not believe. It did run 11.40's @ 118 for years. Then I went to the 12.5 to 1 engine and ran it for years until I lost a lifter bore. But I think the lifter bore broke because it broke a rocker arm on the exhaust and the extra cylinder pressure of trying to open the intake broke the lifter and bore. I guess I know now that rockers (even good ones) have a limited life. I'm getting ready to start a new engine tonight. Will my luck hold or have I made a mistake or over looked something? I have found with most engines if it is good from the start, it will usually last a long time. One that has little problems, will not last for the long haul. What do I know?
    later
    JIM N.
     
  10. got rice?

    got rice? Well-Known Member

    who is AMP?
     
  11. gymracer01

    gymracer01 Well-Known Member

    Amp

    Automotive Machine and Performance in Philpot KY, near Owensboro KY. They specialize in Buicks. Great people to deal with.
    Jim N.
     
  12. got rice?

    got rice? Well-Known Member

    thanks
     
  13. Buicks4Speed

    Buicks4Speed Advanced Member

    Just a little more on the lifter bore issue. Even though it may be a bad design, I think that the failures out there have a cause to there failure other than just the block. Like running springs too close to coil bind or spring bounce or something like a broke exhaust rocker arm. My lifter bore plates weren't even in place anymore when I pulled my motor apart last time. Were they flexing? Maybe. Was it from block flex? Maybe. But they didn't break with .680 lift and I run pretty stout pressure roller springs with 1.7 rockers that load the lifter bores hard. So I have a hard time with flat tappets breaking lifter bores with half the load just because of the block being the problem. Also rollers don't have nearly the side load support as a flat tappet does. So not to take blame away from the un-supported lifter bore block, but other things can cause a problem. :Do No:
     
  14. gymracer01

    gymracer01 Well-Known Member

    Rick, I agree with you. I was not running extreme pressures and was not near coil bind. For what ever reason the rocker broke, I think that caused the lifter and bore to break. I run a mild valve train setup so as not to need constant maintenance. I guess 6 years and 600+ runs might need some though.
    JIm N.
     
  15. GRIMM

    GRIMM Well-Known Member

    i have a few questions from reading this:

    when using a two step, is a trans break required?

    what is a safe rpm for a block with stock crank (front 4 mains clearanced to .002, rear at .0025), sportsmans rods (.002 clearance), custom light-weight racing pistons (from TA, made by JE) with total seal rings, light weight wrist pins, and a TA 294-98F cam (solid)?

    Alot of these problems i can see come from rpm overload, and i was planning on 6700 rev limiter in this car (heavy car, 3800+ trying to lighten) shifting around 6500, but this thread makes me want to rething the rear ratios (again) and aim for 6000 shift and maybe 6300 rev limiter.

    also, to add in, many people have had problems, such as main webbings breaking and blocks cracking, from using nothing but the stock motor mounts on a high performance engine, which stressed the side-wall of the block causing alot of stress. To overcome this i plan on hard-mounting the block using alluminum square tubing to the front and rear of each head (will this cause a head sealing problem witht he extra tension?) and possible remove the motor mounts and put another alluminum bar across there to the frame somewhere.

    thanks
     
  16. tlivingd

    tlivingd BIG BLOCK, THE ANTI PRIUS

    I think you would be better with steel instead of alumimnum espically on the sides where the stock motor mount will go because of the expandsion coefficent of steel vs alumimum when the materials heat up.

    some of the really serious guys use front and rear plates for engine mounts and some others also add the side reinforcement.

    I'd like to see some of the other guys who use reinforcement on the sides of the block as i've never seen it but read about people doing it here.
     
  17. GRIMM

    GRIMM Well-Known Member

    good point.

    I dont have the means to make a front plate though, ill do some steel bars or some reinforcements to the front and rear of the heads, maybe attaching accross to eachother on the sides to help.
     
  18. capsgs

    capsgs Well-Known Member

    Guys,

    I guess this is where I disagree with most people. If an engine is truly correct there is no reason for it to come apart. Especially if the failure is bearing related.

    If you have a 550 hp combo and the lifter galley pops out then I would agree that its dumb luck. Otherwise pull the engine apart and diagnose what caused the failure and try to prevent it from happening again.

    All of the engine issues that I have had can be traced back to a bad initial design or something I did wrong.

    Later :3gears:[/QUOTE]

    You did something wrong? That's it, the world will surely turn off it's axis now!!!:Brow:
     
  19. John Stevens

    John Stevens Well-Known Member

    Well, Mine didn't come apart but it was "dumb luck" that I found it before it did, I had in excess of 700 10-sec. passes on it, using a trans brake with a 2-step. All the bearings looked perfect, as a matter of fact I reused the rod bearings, the problem with my block was that it broke the #4 main across the oil feed hole to about 1/2 way across the main web to the oil pan rail. The only parts that I replaced were the gaskets, cam bearings, main bearings(worn to the copper at the break in the main saddle) and the block its self, the first pass back together was at the GS Nationals, went a 10.61, after a little carb tuning went 10.42. It doesn't always have to be an assembly problem. This is enigne has never had a girdle on it!
     
  20. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    CAP.... How is it going dude??????

    Its great to see you back on the Buick boards!!!!!

    Is this any indication that you will get your Buick out of moth balls and race again????

    Later... and take care my friend:beer
     

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