I'm at a loss and grabbing at straws...

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Brett Slater, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    This car is giving me fits.

    If we're being honest, it hasn't run right at WOT since the new motor was installed. It noses over right around 4,500 RPM, almost like I have a rev limiter.

    Things I can rule out:

    QJ is a Rob Ross special and works fine. I've actually let a friend try it on his car and swayed him away from Holley. So, that's not the issue.

    The distributor was rebuilt and recurved last year by another prominent Buick guy and has between 12-14 initial and 32 ish all in by 2,500 RPM. Vacuum advance is hooked up and I'm running the Lectric Limited breakerless setup.

    My machinist is meticulous. So, the actual build isn't a concern. In fact, the motor he built for me 30 years ago still runs strong. TA 413 cam was degreed per TA's suggestion and while I understand it's somewhat on the radical side, I have leeway with the 4-speed and manual drums.

    Alternator, voltage regulator and basically everything else is brand new.

    Questionable: the JW ported 1786 Stage 1 heads, which have the TA double springs, were acquired from a local guy. I had them checked out by a reputable machine shop before installing and they said they checked out okay. I even gave them my cam specs so they'd have something to go on. In retrospect, I probably should have got new springs as these were new in 2010 and did see some race time with a less radical cam but I didn't.

    Now I'm left with a cool cruiser that noses over and loses power under a load. What else can I diagnose at this point?

    Local Buick guys have been kind enough to reply to texts and I'm just basically throwing **** against the wall and hoping something sticks in the hope that I may have missed something.

    I'm going to get it on a chassis dyno soon and hopeful that reveals something I may have missed. If it's valve springs, so be it. It has had flashes of greatness but only very seldom.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Noses over? That's fuel. Stage 1 pump? Have you blocked off the return? Have you looked at all of the fuel line at each end of the car? Have you looked at the pick up sock?
     
  3. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I was going to say it's running out of fuel upstairs. Volume issue. Don't you have a Robb Mc pump and sender someplace? Lol
     
    Brett Slater likes this.
  4. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Flashes of greatness....just like me :)
     
  5. Taulbee2277

    Taulbee2277 Silver Level contributor

    Put a fuel pressure gauge in-line and use a length of hose to tape it to your windshield. Take it to a safe place and do some pulls and watch what the fuel pressure does at higher rpm.

    It will either tell you there is an issue or eliminate the possibility :cool:
     
  6. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    Noses over and breaks up. Kind of like a rev limiter. It's odd.

    I haven't blocked off the return or inspected the fuel lines. That's next on the list.
     
  7. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    Just so happens I do.
     
  8. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have both the pump and sender.

    Looks like I'll be trying that sooner than I thought.
     
  9. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    Duly noted.
     
  10. Brett Slater

    Brett Slater Super Moderator Staff Member

    :D:D
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  12. dan zepnick

    dan zepnick Well-Known Member

    How about lifter preload? If too much it will kill rpm. Adjustable pushrods?
     
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  13. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    If its breaking up and missing that's not running out of fuel.....running out fuel just feels flat not missing or breaking up.

    Breaking up is either valve float due to weak springs....or as mentioned as the rpms increase the amount of time for lifters to bleed off reduces and ifvthe valve get hung over.....it can cause that.

    But it sounds like valve float. Not sure how much lift your cam has......I ran ta stafe1 plus spring with several cams up to low .570 lift with no issues or float to 6500 rpm, and are basiclly drop in on iron heads.

    Checking fuel pressure under load won't hurt to help rule one thing out. But have fuel pressure doesn't mean the motor isn't running out of fuel.......I went to low in jets b4......had plenty of fuel pressure....but car would nose over and go flat b4 the 660ft......but it didn't break up and miss.......just fell flat. I've had bad incorrect springs installed b4.....and it would go nuts like that every time it got near 5000. Popping and all.....let off a touch it would go away,
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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  14. Smartin

    Smartin antiqueautomotiveservice.com Staff Member

    I’ll put $100 on running out of fuel
     
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  15. standup 69

    standup 69 standup69

    Have you pulled the spark plugs and see if they are fouled ? Just went through this on a car ended up being a bad MSD cap that looked fine ..
     
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  16. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    I also just had to fight through a bad msd cap. But a new msd distributor in a boat with a fresh motor.....it would should spark on all cylinders.....I could put my timing light in each and rear the same rpm, but within a mile or 2 on the water #2 would carbon sooty black.......tried everything else wires etc.....put a new 50 dollar cap on and it went away.

    The odd thing was with a new plug in that hole....it would run right as rain....full rpm full mph for those 2 miles the just fall flat......but never popped and banged or misfires and would still read rpm on the timing light........very very strange
     
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  17. rkammer

    rkammer Gold Level Contributor

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  18. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I would check fuel pressure although I'd expect the stage 1 pump to keep up at that rpm. You won't want to hear this but a couple of flat lobes will cause your symptoms all day. Before you start throwing parts at it I'd pull the valve covers and verify you haven't lost the cam. If that checks out I would suspect the points elimination kit.

    The 10 year old valve springs are nothing to worry about. The 413 cam is a bit rowdy but is not a brutal race cam by any means.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  19. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Fuel tank,....been there done this,....the fuel is moving around and with a mechanical pump especially thus can't happen,....some of the new tanks are baffled,....that's what you want also,..an in tank submerged pump will solve any delivery issues,....the regulator isn't cheap but it solves the problem
     
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  20. BQUICK

    BQUICK Gold Level Contributor

    I had issue where new cheap rubber fuel hose by the tank was soft and would suck closed in warm weather. Thought it was vapor lock. In cool weather it didn't do it cuz hose stayed more rigid.....Replaced with marine 3/8 hose and fixed it.
     

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