Hydraulic flat tappet lifters

What is everybody getting for hydraulic flat tappet lifters right now? Any or all of the current offerings from TA good? Comp cams 869?

 

Whatever brand you end up with, disassemble each one a clean 'em

 

lifters are a significant issue these days.. I have the feeling we'll be revisiting just what kinda sin it is to re-use old lifters on a new cam in the near future...

 

Carmen Faso still has a few...I was just visiting him in North Tonawanda and still amazed at the products he has.

 

Is his contact info still the same as I've seen in some older threads?

 

Funny that you mention reusing lifters. When I was a teenager I did my first cam swap in my '67 GS400 and didn't have the knowledge or money to buy new lifters. I installed a new cam with the old lifters and went on without any issues. The car went 4 tenths quicker in the 1/4 mile and I never had a cam/lifter issue in the many years that I continued to use the car as my daily driver. Maybe I got lucky but I've never installed used lifters again but I've probably got a few sets laying around.

 

yes, 716 number.

 

Guys.. Lifters are an issue.. and will be for the foreseeable future..

I strongly urge you to keep your old lifters.. I was in a cam grinding shop here recently, and saw a machine that said " Sunnen lifter resurfacer" on it.. Sure enough, it puts the crown back on used lifters.

Take the lifter apart, carefully keep everything matched up, soak the parts individually in carb cleaner and re-grind the lifter face, and they are as good as new.. I will get a price on the regrind process next time I am in that shop.

JW

 

Sunnen TR-6700? Was just reading about resurfacing machines, they're still out there!



Devon

 

Thanks for the info Jim. Just imagine how many old lifters we have all tossed out over the years.

My grandfather was an automotive machinist for his entire working career from the early 1950s-early 2000s when he finally fully retired. I think they had a lifter resurfacer in the old machine shop. I loved going there as a little kid.

 

Devon

 

Devon,
Yep that looked like the machines I saw.. they had a pair of them, side by side.. looked 50's or 60's vintage.. But in really nice shape, with covers on them. Joel said he uses them all the time, that little shop specializes in making and repairing cams for obsolete equipment.. mainly old tractors.. They have been in business since the 50's.

And they have a full master lobe library flat tappet hyd and solids, and hyd and solid roller cams.. litterally thousands of different lobes. and I have had them grind a couple hydraulic rollers for me recently, and been very happy with the results. Both on performance and workmanship.. and the time frame difference is huge.. a week or two, vs months for the big cam companies. Last one Comp did for me took 3 months, with me supplying the core, I ordered a flat tappet 8 months ago, and have not seen it yet..

And there is nothing like being able to talk to the guy doing your work..

With the cam core shortage, I think we will be regrinding some old cores I have in the shop here.. never could bring myself to throw out cams that were not broken, and had a good gear on them still. That may come in handy here. That little shop has all the equipment to regrind and parkerize them, so they will be as good as new core stuff.

JW

 

Jim have you ever looked into the lifter to bore clearance spec on these engines? I’ve heard of people adding bushings in the lifter bores to tighten up that spec and help oil pressure, what’s your opinion?

 

Yes.. I measure the lifter to bore clearance in every motor.. started that back when we had all the issues with the morel hyd roller lifters, one of their reasons for noise was the need for a tight lifter to bore fit.. .0015 is the desired fit in an iron block..

Our motors are way bigger than this.. .002 to .003 is really common, I have seen them with as much as .005.. The wider clearance stuff does drop the oil pressure off more at idle, but generally works fine.. I had one guy opt not to go to the .875 lifter size, which is actually the "fix" on our iron blocks, since we really don't have enough meat to bush them.. it would be touch and go in many blocks, but virtually any block used for performance will have enough meat in it to go .875.. at which time we use Ford lifters. That motor showed no ill effects of a .0045 lifter to bore clearance, other than the normal 10-15 psi drop off from room temp to 150* oil, was more like 25 lbs in that motor.

I keep track of the oil pressure when a new motor starts on the dyno or my run stand, and then when the oil is up to 150*.. it's just another data point, and a way to get to know each individual engine.. this is all done at 2000 rpm, and often the pressure goes from 75 to 60 something.. block/builds with higher clearances will drop into the 50's..

I have measured a couple of NOS blocks, never used, and they were in the .0025 to .003 range. So it's not a wear issue, this is just how the factory machined them.. I will have to pull out the engine blueprint, and see what size is called out..

The Johnson hyd roller is much more tolerant of the wider clearance. One of the reasons it works better for us.

JW

 

Delphi hard face lifters. There is a line separating the hard face. Replace the wire clip with C clip.

 

The only problem is Delphi quit making them.. those were the lifter of choice, but they are disappearing fast.

JW

 

Jim,
If many of us (me included I think) do have the larger than it should be lifter bores from the factory, but all the bearing clearances are at .002 including oil pump gear end clearance, is that the probable cause of low hot idle oil pressure?
Is it possible to attain say 75 psi WOT pressure while still maintaining a reasonable cold start pressure (70 psi max under light throttle driving warming up?) Or is it a trade off between sky high cold start pressure and desired WOT pressure.
My cold start pressure is around 75 light throttle driving till warm, my WOT pressure hot is 64 making a pass.
I want 70 psi making a pass, but then my cold start is 80 plus.

 

Thanks

 

That convex regrind can be done on a cutter grinding machine. I would check runout after lifter is chucked up. Collets, especially 5c, have runout, maybe up to .0035
Sounds to me like that grinding wheel needs to be dressed and opened up. A longer spark out would be helpful also.

 

I don't leave the driveway until the motor gets up to 180 then the oil pressure has backed off some and not 80 at 2 grand.