How to increase BBB engine longevity!

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Staged70Lark, Aug 31, 2005.

  1. Weekender

    Weekender weekender

    John, its a done deal!

    Hi John'

    Weekender here. After we talked a couple of weeks ago I went to the machine shop and outlined all the recommendation we discussed as well as points that Jim W. recommended. All relative issues related to my engine are being completed as this post is being written.

    I will let you guys with hydraulics know if the restricter works having hydraulics myself it will show as soon as the motor fires. I have full roller rockers arm assemblies and they do not require a lot of oil to live or I would not have done this suggestion. As I see it, any one with stock rocker arm assemblies might beware if they oil through the push rods using this much oil restriction.

    I have already had the alignment bushing project completed and the block is going to the hone machine as soon as the grooves are cut in the main journals. I figured my block is at maximum piston size and this is the last hone for the mains any way, what have I got to lose. The crankshaft and bearings are where I have my problems and if this thing lives I believe the bushing, oiling and clearance suggestions will have been a big part of the issue.

    I had the crankshaft cross drilled previously and that was suppose to replace the additional oil groove and extra holes in the upper mains bearing, it was an either, or, situation (the book said use one or the other). Well, I still had bearing problems, so I'm going to "OR".

    If it doesn't work you will see a post with a lot of "cry baby icons" in it. As for now, I'm happy to have something to work with and a warm glow in my heart thinking that this just might be the answer. :grin:

    I will be in touch is a couple of weeks and update you on this project.

    Thanks for your time John, anyone who goes nine second and keep one of these beasts together has my respect. :TU:

    I'm happy if my "crys for help" when I posted my problems was part of your motivation to start this thread I'm sure the viewing count will go out of sight over time.

    Hey John, what do you think of my external oil system pictures?

    Weekender:3gears:
     

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  2. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Hey Guys,

    After talking a bit with Gary G. I now feel its OK to resume adding to this thread. I still feel that the main bearing oiling mods are the way to go!!!

    Will continue this weekend.


    Weekender,

    Your gonna have to explain those pictures to me. I dont quite understand what you tried to do. So we dont get sidetracked on this thread please PM me.

    Thanks
     
  3. Weekender

    Weekender weekender

    Hey John!

    I will endeavor over the weekend to explain the setup with better assembled pixs. Send me your E-mail address, I can't do pixs in the PM system.

    My e-mail l.eaton@speednetllc.com

    Weekender
     
  4. Weekender

    Weekender weekender

    Can oil scavaging system help?

    Hi John,

    When we talked you said an oil scavaging system would be helpful in making the BBB live due to several 90 degree turns the oil makes before it get to the bearing and lifters.

    Here are a few pictures of my version of Rick Crawfords setup for getting this job done.

    #1 Picture is the oil pickup modified bulkhead fitting
    #2 " is the oil pickup w/shroud
    #3 " is the baffle and fitting in the pan
    #4 " is the 90 degree to the oil pump
    #5 " is the 180 into the oil pump on the intake side of the gears.

    Larry
     

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  5. ranger

    ranger Well-Known Member

    Earick Racing says big "no" to extra oil holes

    Hi folks,

    The last time I spoke with Brian at Earick Racing, he said the extra oil holes/grooving the block is about the worst thing you can do. Says he's tried it in many applications, including marine, and had nothing but problems.

    Not trying to start a fight here, and please call/e-mail him for further discussion about this.

    Regards,

    Craig Stangohr/Aiken, S.C.
     
  6. texas ranger

    texas ranger One riot one ranger

    More!!! give us more. :eek2:
     
  7. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Interesting. This is the first negative thing I have heard about this mod. I would like to hear Brian's view.
     
  8. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Weekender/Larry,

    Thats an interesting oiling system!!! With all of that welding on the timing chain cover I hope things in the pump area are not distorted!!!!! Also I dont think I would use that home made pick up in the pan. Later I will post pictures of what you should use.

    Ranger/Craig,

    There is certainly more than one way to get things done. I would LOVE to hear why Brian thinks this is a bad idea!!!! Maybe I am messing up! Remember who orginally thought of this idea. It was Dennis Manner.... the engineer who designed our beloved 455. Come on Brian... lets hear from you!!!!


    Back to the original discussion.....

    We were still modifying the main bearing area of our blocks to get the oil into the main journals and through the crankshaft to the connecting rod bearings.

    At this point we need to discuss the crankshaft itself. Do we CROSS DRILL the mains of the crankshaft or NOT??? Cross drilling the main journals will help with oil supply to the bottom of the main bearing surface. The drawback is it will decrease the strength of the crankshaft. I have also heard this will reduce oil flow for higher rpm engines. I can say that all of the engines I have run had the crankshaft cross drilled.

    If ANYONE out there has any input on this subject I would love to hear it!

    Its late now so more tomorrow.
    Later
     
  9. John Stevens

    John Stevens Well-Known Member

    John/& others, While my combination is less then "full race", I'll jump in here with a couple things that I do. I do cross drill the crank though I've heard both positive & negitive about it, I figured that it was printed in a Buick factory bulletin, so why not? I mean they must be smarter then me, they designed it, right? As for making the crank weak, I don't believe I've ever seen a broken buick crank, (not saying that it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen one), Next, I ALWAYS increase the side clearance on the connecting rods(stock rods) by about .004-.006, I use a stock oil pump setup & havent had any bearing issues since I began doing this. Just a couple things that have worked for me. I'm sure others may disagree, so lets hear it! This is a fantastic subject to post for all to read, I get so pissed off listening to Brand-X'rs talking about how "Buicks can't last a full season of racing"
     
  10. BQUICK

    BQUICK Gold Level Contributor

    John, I never had any oiling issues until I went to a solid cam. Would restricting the oil at the lifter do any good? Or does it have to be done earlier in the system.
    I was real impressed with the way the 308S cam ran but sure don't like the looks of it now......in at least 6 pieces.

    Bruce
     
  11. evil16v

    evil16v Midwest Buick Mafia

    John, i agree that will xause distortion... i did it and i had a small issue with it. part of the problem was the welder i had so this... IMI of lawrence kansas did it and ignored eveything i told them to do. too much heat, slag in the gearbore area, and they put the clamp on the gasket surface :Dou: absolute idiots. the problem was(i'm certain) the guy spoke to about the project was not the guy that did the job... get the picture?

    I massaged the slag of with the dremel, ok there. cleaned up the gasket surface. all is ok now.


    If i had it to do over again. i would have made a plate and pulled form the bottom. but here are a few referance pictures for you.... you may add commentary as you like.
     
  12. evil16v

    evil16v Midwest Buick Mafia

    slag i had to later dremel out
     

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  13. evil16v

    evil16v Midwest Buick Mafia

    #2
     

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  14. evil16v

    evil16v Midwest Buick Mafia

    #3
     

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  15. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Larry and Rob,

    I understand what your doing on the intake side of the oil pump. This mod will allow you to increase the diameter of the main pickup line (If your running #12 or larger). But there are a few problems with what I see. The first is welding on that timing cover that is OLD..... THIN.... and contaminated with oil. How well will the weld hold to it? Will it leak? The second problem I see is this system does not address the real problem which is getting the oil from the oil pump to the passanger side lifter galley. You are still using the front cover and the oil has to make several 90 degree turns to get to the lifter galley.

    Larry...do not use that oil pickup!!!

    OK Guys and Gals,

    I think we have the main bearing and rod bearing area kind of covered. Now lets talk about getting oil to the mains. There are 5 oil passages in the block that lead from the passanger side oil galley down to the main bearings. MANY TIMES those holes do NOT line up with the oil holes in the main bearings. A die grinder must be used to align those holes!!! In addition you may want to enlarge those passages.

    The diameter of those oil passages are: (I am going off of memory here)
    1. .440
    2. .313
    3. .313
    4. .313
    5. .313

    DO NOT ENLARGE THE OTHER PASSAGES TO .440!! I dont want to ruin a block so I only take passages 2 thru 5 slightly larger to .344. On some blocks I have never enlarged these areas and have been OK.

    Later

    The front
     
  16. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Hi Guys,

    John....what is your take/thoughts on this mod.....

    The passenger side oil gallery reduces in size from 1/2" down to 3/8" at about the number 3 main. I, myself, go in from the back and drill out to 1/2" to make it a solid 1/2" front-to-back. This of course necessitates the need to enlarge the rear plug on that side to 3/8"NPT from the 1/4"NPT it previously was. I then feed the gallery from now both the stock front and the rear so in my mind that should equalize the pressure front-to-rear in that gallery.:Do No: From my understanding that the factory reduced, or "necked-it-down", there in an attempt to increase pressure from that point back.

    So...do you drill out the gallery or leave as is stock?:Do No:

    As a side note....I too also drill out the number 2-5 main feeds to 11/32" and make darn sure the oil feed holes in the bearings line up properly.

    I still want to groove the upper main bores and add the additional bearing oiling holes even though my crank is crossdrilled. I've studied those pic's you posted awhile back showing your "homemade" fixture a few times here and there but that's as far as it's went.:spank:
     
  17. TA Perf

    TA Perf Member

    I disagree with Brian about the oil channels and additional oil delivery holes. I first noticed these grooves in 502 Chevy blocks at trade shows. But nobody there could tell me why they were there. So I called Denny to talk with him about the trouble we were having with #3 rod bearing in engines making 850+ hp and running 7000+ rpm. He explained to me what the grooves would be used for, and then helped calculate the size and depth I should try. He felt this modification done right would increase the oil flow to the rods by over 100%. So we wrote a CNC program to machine them into the Buick block. There is some hand work to be done as you seen in Terrance's photo's. We have used this now for about 8 years or longer. There is still more to this, but its late. More at another time. Got to go.
     
  18. Weekender

    Weekender weekender

    I'm Await'in!

    Professor John :Smarty:

    I am a patient man, I'll not install the pickup until I hear from you. This is the last chance for this block and it has to be done right.

    thanks for you concern about my project.

    Larry :spank:
     
  19. Kerry s.

    Kerry s. Is Jesus YOUR Lord?

    Thanks for "chiming in" Mike! Looking forward to hearing more from you concerning this.:TU:
     
  20. Staged70Lark

    Staged70Lark Well-Known Member

    Kerry,

    I have drilled out that oil galley in the past but dont do it anymore. Drilling that galley enlarges the cut out area for the lifter bore. If that hole is larger then there is more of a chance for oil hemmoraging past the lifter. Again... it probably will not hurt on your engine if your running a solid or hyd. camshaft. For us guys who run rollers this will definately cause oil to hemmorage out through the roller lifter.

    Equalizing the passanger side lifter galley is another MUST!!! I haven't talked about this yet Kerry because I cant find YOUR PICTURES. If you have the pictures of your engine with this mod PLEASE Post them. If not I am going to have to search for them.

    T/A Mike,

    Thanks for chiming in!!!!! This one single modification I owe to you and think its the MOST important of any modification. It makes wayyyy to much sense!

    I hope you understand why I started this thread Mike. I dont want anyone walking away from these Buick engines thinking that a Brand X is better. They are NOT. If these engines are built correctly they will run and LAST.

    Again... I know your a busy guy so thanks for giving us some of your time. OH... and I still owe ya one for BG!!!!


    Later
     

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