Help with my little 350 please...

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by [JP], Sep 2, 2017.

  1. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    yes, its on the list - TA1559------------TA High Perf cam bearing kit 74.75

    them to pay?
    get it in writting?
    i dont understand what you mean?
     
  2. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Nop.. havent touched the pistons at all. rings will stay the same.
     
  3. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    What I mean is that if things don't measure up satisfactorily, then you are faced with the problem of trying to solve it by paying for another grind AND ordering bearings from abroad...unless they did NOT follow your instructions when they went ahead and ground it.
    If they are guaranteeing it will operate perfectly by their going ahead and doing it...I'd get any resolutions agreed upon now.
     
  4. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    ah right! I see.. I get you now.
    well, they basically took 10thous off what the original size would have been for that crank. this means they have taken a bit more here and there.

    Does that make sense?
    that way if I order 10 thou oversized bearings, it should be alright. ok it might not be perfect and it might be a bit more tight here and there...but I'm not building a race engine, I dont rev it all the time, it's mainly cruising speeds at 50mph.. and do about 2k miles a year.. not even that.

    it will all bed in gently together.
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  5. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Being that I machine things still...none of that got by me. :)
    Please go back and read what happens in so many cases when things just don't go as planned or add up the way you think they will hypothetically.
    "Should" and reality can be two very different things and if this doesn't sink in yet...this entire thread has been a waste of time to attempt to assist you.
    If YOU don't mind holding out to chance, it's no big deal.
    I've re-machined enough engines that were victims of people who thought "this SHOULD work" ...that didn't, to have an opinion on the subject.
    I hope things go well, wish you luck!

    Bearings don't 'bed in', the crank wipes them to shape or out if there's a problem.
     
  6. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    The thread has assisted me in how the whole science works and why should be done like that.
    I understand your opinion and respect it, I know the way described is the way to do it properly... however, I'm taking my chances here. if it doesnt work.. then it's my own fault.
    I don't mind holding out to chance. it's the best money for value I'm going to get out of that truck/engine.. anything more complicated is just not financially viable and I'd be better of setting fire to it. :D

    due to shipping contrains, time etc and not knowing if i'd need 10 or 20 thou if I was going the correct procedure, I have done it this way.

    I have a friend who has built a few engines in his time (used to drag race) and he said most of the engines he builds (not race engines) he just gets the crank reground and then uses the bearings to play around and get the clearances.
    So i'm going with that because of the reasons I have explained before.

    I think most people forget I'm in the UK, I can't just go down the shop and get parts or get them the next day with cheap postage....
    I appreciate all the advice everyone gives out and I take it in, but at the end of the day I have to make the decision of which way to go.... even if that's not the recommended way.
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  7. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    That's my point.
    There aren't + or - bearings to play around with here, and the second part is the main reason why it was suggested to order more than you'll use or have them stand behind their decision.
    If you are referring to swapping the shells' position, there isn't that much variance in a set to do much.
    I'm not personally offended by however you choose to do things, you're not telling me anything I haven't had to deal with before.
    I see several per year that simply won't assemble doing exactly what you describe.
    It's a bigger problem within the industry in the last 10 years more than ever with the better skilled end of the labor pool retiring out and parts being outsourced and their holding to a standard.

    A good thing about this thread is that you now know there will be one more chance to check things before it assembles and possible courses of action to take along with the anticipated results of any decision you make.

    My comments were coming from an understanding that "the shop couldn't be bothered" with waiting to grind your crank until after you measured everything up...therefore I suggested you hold them to fixing any deviant condition they inadvertently cause by going against your instructions...but now it seems to read that you instructed them to go this route.
    That's probably my misunderstanding.
    Please allow me to disregard your advice from a friend that drag races and assembles a few engines being that I've worked in a high volume engine factory, and have made high volume replacement castings for the aftermarket.
    No disrespect intended, I just see things differently.
    I'm as concerned about it simply not assembling more than having perfect tolerances, or worse...destruction under normal use.

    Budget being what it is...you'd been fine just polishing the crank and skipping all this (my memory on that questionable).
    It would run down the road fine with a couple light scratches, esp. if you are assembling with used rings and just puttering down the road.
     
  8. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    ah yes, it was my instruction to the machine shop. I have no reason to doubt of their work, so I instructed them to just grind it 10 or 20, whichever to get rid of the scoring.

    I will see how it goes.... I know this one is going to be on me.

    the used rings.... now that's one that still bothers me.
    I'm rebuilding the engine on a 68 harley and, as I love my bikes more than the truck and this engine, I have got a hone done on the cylinders and she's getting new piston rings. It's dead cheap to do it...

    On the truck.. the cylinder bored look fine, they are not scored at all.
    but I keep thinking.. should I just put new rings in it? seeing as its all out.., well, the pistons are still on the engine. can I get away with new rings but not doing the hone on the cylinders?
    (taking the engine block and getting it honed will be expensive...)

    what are the views of using one of those honing tools on the end of a drill? I could do that as its relatively cheap to buy the tool...

    I think the piston rings are these?
    and how do I know if it has been bored before? on my harleys the pistons are marked +10..+20...etc.... but couldn't see any marks on the Buick pistons?

    http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1635C
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  9. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Measure the bores with at least a caliper (or pistons)
    You can knock the glaze off with a drill just fine, even put a few scratches in it.
    Scotchbrite hand pads can help things a bit too.
    The idea behind the extra prep and steps such as plateau honing isn't to add new grooves...it's to smooth the surface the rings glide over.
    Rings live a tough life and may not seal up at the next install.

    Not to beat a dead horse...you could have asked the shop to hold off until the bearings arrived being that you cannot possibly install the crank until so, and it wouldn't affect the price any.
    That was kind of the original point.
    Regarding the budget...the transit time might allow re-thinking the project as you put more time into it and learn about what's in front of you. I'm certain that $40 for rings (or whatever) would liberate itself at some point.
    I'm fairly confident that there are similar bore sizes available on your side of the pond.
     
  10. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    The suggestions have nothing to do with doubting their work.
    Their work has less to do with your potential dilemma than the following;
    The main bores the shells fit into have a size range.
    The crank has a size range.
    The bearings vary in production runs, and depending on where/when they were made.
    The shells might not be exactly .010" different from stock ones.
    Those ranges may exceed allowable tolerance.

    I wouldn't keep saying this except your posts suggest that you don't quite understand.
    All said, your project has a decent chance of turning out just fine.
     
  11. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    I do understand the whole concept of measuring the inner size of the bearings (when mounted), measuring the crank, and take the diference out plus the clearance. - I have learned that from all the posts here and yes, the science behind it makes complete sense.
    However I didn't know how much would have to be ground to get rid of scoring, could have been .010 or less or 0.020 and that involved ordering 2 sets of bearings.
    Say.. if I was to put 0.010 bearings, measure it all and not enough meat on the crank to be ground then I would have needed 0.020 bearings. besides other factors, like all the measuring up, getting special tools, the price of 2 sets of bearings and all that put me off. and went for the fingers crossed solution that it will all work.
    I'm relying on luck and my very light foot on the pedal.... the truck has no safety at all and I drive it with my 6 year old girl... there's no power brakes, no power steering, nothing.. and the roads here are not flat straight roads..

    I'm going down to the workshop tomorrow and take a set of calipers to measure up the pistons and bores and also see if I can see any markings on the pistons.
    All I need now is to get the piston rings size and I'm ready to order.
    running out of time as all the parts have to be in Oklahoma before the 15th of December or i'm missing the container here for January. next one is only in June!

    I have been good and followed all of your advice guys.... except for the crank, so please don't beat me up :) and keep your fingers crossed for me over there?
    if all goes wrong then you can all shoot me and say "I told you so..."
     
    8ad-f85 and 300sbb_overkill like this.
  12. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    It's all good, no "I told you so's" going to happen!
    Maybe so much info that it clouded things a bit for you.

    The other alternative offered was to simply get the .020" bearings, so it would clean up for sure.
    Pretty sure it was stated that there's almost no way a groove in a crank would be .005" deep. It's tough to get a chisel and BFH to even do that :D :D

    Not sure why you would need to explain the problem to me...Still pretty sure I'm seeing this more clearly than you.
    (not a bash, we are actually trying to help you and many of us have been in the same situation with a project at one point or another)

    Whether or not the crank grinder can hold 10 millionths accuracy is far overruled by the fact that he can't see your mating parts.

    It's fantastic to see our old iron over there :D
     
  13. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Ohh.. and I have a bit of old american iron here :)
    the 65 chevy truck with the 350 buick in it, a 1976 Harley shovelhead, a 1968 harley Panshovel and a 1951 Panhead on the way :)
    One of my friends has one of only 2 Buick Apollo in the country. in a pretty bad state though as it was stored in a small garage and the back end rotted out. My friend has had it for 10 years, but no chance in finding panels here....
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  14. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    :) .....................you'll have to use your French curve to form the panels yourself.


    I mean...English Wheel!
    Bahahahaa!!
    Just kidding!
     
  15. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    Hahaha, that's alright! I'm not even English! lol
    I'm actually Portuguese, but been living in England for the last 14 years :)
     
    8ad-f85 likes this.
  16. [JP]

    [JP] Well-Known Member

    In preparation for later.... as should be at the workshop by 6pm, what should be the standard bore measurement?

    Hopefully I'll get them measured, and then with your help find out if they are standard and then hopefully still order them today. as my 10pm is probably TA shop 4pm or there abouts..
    thanks!
     
  17. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    You can Google basic bore/stroke info.
    Today, we are celebrating our independence from you with tax-free tea and commemorating the taking over of a land mass by covert means such as poison blankets, shady contracts, etc.
    Just kidding :D :D :D
     
    [JP] likes this.
  18. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Here you go.

    BuickEngineSpecs.JPG
     
  19. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    That shows the 350 head being 50-55 cc . Seems a tad off of the 58 cc the heads seem to be
     
  20. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Yeah, I noticed that too. Right off the TA Performance website.
     

Share This Page