So would the Super T-10 and TH400 yolk be all I need for the underside of the car? Just replace the auto with that?
Sorry, I was off by one year. My M20 is a 71 and it's got the big output and fine spline input. I don't want a new car, That's why I'm building old cars. If I wanted a new and smooth car I'd go buy a honda. I was a big, loud, nasty, rough old Buick with an old Muncie 4 speed. I like the old school Also, a good used muncie 4 speed is pretty easy to find for about 500-600$ A newer 5 or 6 speed is going to cost at least 3 times that for a used one and probably 5 times that for a new one. Not worth it IMO. And correct me if I'm wrong, the 350 has the small output shaft and the 400 has the big one. If he has a 350 right now, if he got a super T10 he would have the wrong output shaft size. That's why he should go with a pre 71 M20, because it has the small output shaft like his driveshaft already has. I have a Super T 10 and it's the same as my 1971 M20, fine spline input (26 spline) and big output shaft (like the early Pontiac hydramtics and the TH400s). Ok, you're gunna need a 4 speed bellhousing to connect your motor to the 4 speed, inside the bellhousing goes your flywheel, pressure plate, throw out bearing and clutch disc. The throw out bearing, pressure plate and clutch disc should all come in a set. The flywheel is probably made by some aftermarket company but you can probably find a stock one pretty easily. You might have to get a different cross member or make a different mount or maybe they line up on your car. On my '59 I had to make a plate so adapt the transmission mount and move it about an inch forward. You're driveshaft will probably need to be shortened a few inches. Mine was shortened 2" with all new U joints and repacked the carrier bearing for $110 at a local shop. After all that is in you'll need to find the linkage to hook your pedal up to the clutch fork. The clutch fork pushes the throw out bearing into the pressure plate which disengauges the clutch when you push in the clutch pedal. Then of course you'll need a shifter and the installation kit which will probably cost you about $300 for a Hurst comp plus kit. It's not a cheap swap, but to me it's worth every penny. I hate automatics I just took the shifter off the column. It doesn't look that great but on my '59 Pontiac I didn't have a choice. There were no floor shift '59 Pontiacs. I say sell the auto unless it's the original tranny and you have the original motor. IF you ever had to sell it, that stuff is important to a lot of people.
Robert, you told me everything I needed to know. And I totally agree with you that I want a nasty big Buick. Thanks for the help! :beer Oh and it is the original engine and tranny. The car only has 80,000 miles on it and from what I know they've never even been taken out for anything.
I swapped a th350 with a close ratio Super T-10 last winter. Of course you need the bell housing and all the goodies that go in it and a pedal setup that can be bought as a kit from opgi.com. But the tranny is the same length and will mount in the stock th350 location on the cross member. When you take the driveshaft to get new u joints, hand him a th400 yoke to put on it. No length changes are needed. If you don't want to alter the tunnel you will have to use the W pattern instead of the H (think of it as a theft deterent) because the 3-4 rod will not clear the tunnel and you'll have to install the shifter connecter upside down. Tunnel patches are available. If you're handy and can replace motors or transmissions, you can handle this. I am a muscle car enthusiest, not a mechanic. Have no mechanic friends. I was able to figure it out and get it done. I believe it cost me < 1,000 but I scored the Trans and Bell for 150 from a friend. The single best decision I made. The driving experience is 100x better than an automatic.
Alright, and there's one more thing, about how long does the average swap take? (not including acquiring all the parts, but just the installation) And thanks for the help!
I bet you could do it in one weekend. Easily if you had a friend to help you and all the right tools.
Awesome. I'll try to keep you guys posted if I decide to make the swap. And again, thanks for all the help.:beer
I'm not realy sure, I had was replacing the motor and tranny at once. The front of the car was removed down to the frame so I assembled it on the floor and slid the whole assemble in at once. Surely made it easier to install the bell housing, clutch fork and pedal/zbar kit. I would think if you had access to a lift - a day. I spent most of my time getting parts.
I have a little over 40 hours involved in the swap with just myself doing all the labor and not trying to set a record.
My $.02 worth. 5 or 6 gears in a Buick is overkill for a street car. I have 4 gears and rarely use more than 3. Often times 2. If you got the money and you like to shift a lot more power to ya. Otherwise stick with 4 gears. A conversion can be done pretty cheap. Here's my recipe. Chinese pedals for a Chevelle. A shaft modification was required but they cost me about $40 on Ebay. Hydraulic MC, throw-out bearing and braided lines. $250. If I did it over I'd use a slave cylinder instead of a hydraulic slave cylinder. Made a bracket for the MC on the firewall. Hydraulic Reservoir. $5 for one off a motorcycle on E-bay. Misc. linkage for clutch pedal and MC. $30 from McMaster Carr. Bellhousing. $40 from a Buick 340. Buick only starter location, nobody else bid on it on Ebay. Flywheel. $250 I think from TA. It's a nice piece. Pilot Bushing. Factory bronze machined to fit the stepped hole in my crank. Clutch/Pressure plate. Factory replacement kit. $125 Driveshaft, new 4" aluminum with new yoke and u-joints. $200. I got a deal. Depending on transmission the driveshaft change may not be required. Transmission and shifter. Price varies. T-10's are a little cheaper than a Muncies normally. Shifter Boot. $15 from Summit and screw it to the floor Reverse light and neutral safety. What are those for? My total was $1000 not counting the trans and shifter but includes a $200 driveshaft. Using a slave cylinder would deduct $100. I used a Muncie. If I had to do it all over again I'd use a ST-10 with a low 1st from a 70's Camaro and 2.73 rearend. Right now I have a 2.54 1st gear Muncie and a 3.23 rear with 27" diameter rear tires. It works good but it would suit me better if the rear was a little lower and the tranny gears were stretched out a little further. Saginaws are cheap, cheap, cheap. As long as you don't hammer on first gear and don't use slicks it will work fine. They are a great option if you have a factory 2.56 rearend because I think most Saginaws had a 3.42 first gear (which is also why they are prone to breaking). If your car is a 350 car and you're $ are low then consider a Saginaw. I think they swap direct for a TH350. If you don't have to modify the driveshaft a complete conversion could be done for a little over $1000.
Doug sounds like you got killer deals on all those parts. I think I'd spend a year waiting for all those parts at those prices. I also put the motor and tranny in all at once. It took me and my friend about an or 2. I left the transmission on a jack until I made my adapter plate for the tanny mount which too about another hour. Maybe another hour to bolt it all together and make sure it lined up. Then I had to pull out my tranny and bellhousing by myself and put it back in. That took about 8 hours by myself laying on the floor. The driveshaft installation was easy, maybe 45 minutes. The pedal bracket assembly took maybe 45 minutes because you have to drop the column on my car. I think it can easily be done in a weekend if you have a friend with you and a case of beer. T10s are usually a little bit cheaper but the super T10s are usually a little bit more expensive. Whatever you get I would just make sure it has the right yoke for the driveshaft. It's not a big deal to swap out but it's one less part you'll have to buy and get fabbed up to fit. That's why I used an M20, it has the low 2.52 first gear and I'm about to put in a 3.42 posi with 28" tall cheater slicks. Keep in mind these are big heavy cars, we need all the help we can get. I wouldnt go any lower than 3.90 though. When I put the stroker in my Pontiac I'm going to use my Super T10, it's supposed to be a little stronger and has pretty much the same gearing.
I spent a winter collecting parts but the only things i really got a deal on is the drive shaft and bellhousing. Everything cost about $1000 not including the trans and shifter. I also have a bone stock 73 455 so things like a stock clutch will work fine. A better clutch and pressure plate jumps from $125 to about $350 I think but If you don't need it then it's a waste of money. Using Chinese pedals and a Wilwood master cylinder do take some fabrication work but my garage is well equipped so it wasn't a problem. I tucked the master cylinder under the brake booster so you can barely see it unless you look close. The only give away is the small reservoir on the firewall by the fenderwell. 4-speed conversions can be done a lot cheaper than most people think and still look very factory installed.
Depends on what kind of car you're driving. Put a 4 speed in a 59 Buick and you'll find out, it's more about finding the parts than it is paying for them. You'd also have to fabricate a 4 link rear end, add a 62+ full size third member, find the bellhousing and flywheel and linkage (which is super hard to find and is not cheap) plus all the normal stuffy you need for a 4 speed swap. Now if you have a Chevelle you can probably order a kit of all brand new parts everything you'd need for the swap and it would a lot cheaper than our stuff. But that's no fun Even my '59 Pontiac was tough to find the parts and they weren't cheap $300 for the bellhousing and fly wheel (which was a steal but I had to drive to New Mexico to get it) $300 for the clutch (dual friction kevlar ceramic, big heavy car 450+ ft lbs of torque, stock aint gunna cut it) $300 for the shifter and installation kit $600 for the tranny $250 for the pedals and linkage (took me 3 years to even find a set for sale, $250 was a steal) The bellhousing is from a GMC so I can't use the linkage $110 rebuilt and shortened driveshaft I'm figuring in about $150-$200 for a wilwood hydraulic MC and SC set. If you add all that us it's over 2K. Well worth it to me I'm trying to figure out how to get a T56 in my daily driver hemi ram. I'm probably looking at over 3-4K for the swap. It'll be worth every penny also I'm also about to put a 4 speed in my 76 Power Wagon. I just can't handle automatics. My Buick is the only one that will stay an automatic.
