Gauging any interest? in 350 laser-cut exhaust flanges

header flanges are needed for quite a few cars. girdles...only a handful will
want or need one. myself no. a thicker piston wall block for what i am doing, yes.
wish i had bigger machines in my garage so i could do what i really want to do ray:

 

yea, mines also going to be a driver/track car

 

i was thinking Steve Reynolds more specificly but we all you you can make them too mark:TU:

 

The v6 caps are machined out of the block.... I suppose there might be even faster stock block ET's if they found a way to machine them in the block, or tried your brazing idea.

In the v6 kits, (if i remember correctly) there was shimstock provided, to allow for adjustment in obtaining the desred .005" preload.

I think an aluminum spacer like the RJC piece would be a simple fix.. OR perhaps a 3/4" shallower "Mark Burton" aluminum oilpan with kickouts, trap doors, and all the other okie-charmers.:TU:

For $250 I would DEFINATELY be in for one... prices before looked to be in the $400+ range (and I was still interested in one)... I was half-tempted to make one myself, but never got the transfer screws or the gumption to start(don't have CAD, or CNC.. it would have all been manual operations).

Dont forget to include surface-grinding the plate true in your estimates

 

I might be interested in a blank but I'd want to do the machine work myself.

Jim

 

Steps I see needed:

1) Finish CAD drawing. Those that want to be in look it over to modify and accept as a tiny group.

2) Decide on steel material and thickness.

3) Jim, I liked your idea of having a waterjet do as much cutting out, oil slot, and bolt hole work as possible. I first had thought of having the machinest do all the bolt hole work, but now I think the waterjet way is accurate enough we should not have to leave the bolt holes fractionally smaller for a machinest in the next step to fine tune and adjust the bolt holes.

That is what I consider a "blank". From the waterjet ready for final machining.

4) Find machinest to countersink rail bolt holes, blanch grind flat? and hopefully no fine tuning to CAD drawing.

5) Source ARP fasteners.

6) I will TIG my own aluminum pan(s).

7) Your engine builder will assemble cut caps, oiling pickup/route?, and align hone.

In the laser flange buy there are 2 people making a profit at $58.50 each pair. Craig, the guy at the Header Company, and the Laser Company he uses. With girdles we will have the Waterjet company and the Machinest. I'm WAG guessing at the $250.00. Blank price cheaper (no Machinest cost). Maybe we all want "blanks" and find our own Machinest? or you engine builder is capable of machining and fitting. Yes materials will be much more, but overall it seems like a good target to the cost of the flanges we have put together.

 

If I might make a couple of suggestions.

Cold rolled is going to be flat enough, without the need to blanchard grind it. You only need one side perfectly flat anyway and there's enough give in the material to take up any slight variations in surface flatness, which should be negligible for our purposes. If the caps are going to be machined separate from the block there's nothing to be gained by blanchard grinding the plate. Also that spec of .005" proud on the main stud spacers is going to negate any theroretical gain from grinding anyway. (I'd think .002-.003 would be more appropriate myself.) The surface variation in cold rolled is much less than that. The water jet will not induce warpage and any warpage induced by the counterbores or other machining will be practically undetectable.

Don't take the waterjet guy's specs of .003-.005" tolerance as gospel. More likely what you are going to see is .003-.005" of TAPER on thick parts, meaning the bottom of a hole might be a good .010" smaller than the top. It all depends on the material, the thickness, and the travel speed. It certainly can be more than that in some cases. The location of the holes and cuts will be dead on accurate, but a clean up on the drill press is still a good idea if a close fit is desired. The guy I've known and worked with here for years owns the same machine. You have to allow a smidgen of extra clearance over what you would allow with a machining operation to offset the taper. So one of the very first decisions has to be, how close of a fit do we want at the main and rail stud locations? Obviously the closer the fit, the more accurate the layout has to be. We can probably safely assume all the fasteners are parallel, and inserting and removing all the studs with the plate in position is almost going to be the only way to attach and remove it. But any slight variation in hole matching is going to result in tight studs if the hole size is too tight. I'd recommend a heavy sheet metal template for the first run. Obviously we have more leeway at the pan rails than at the mains. If you make the hole size the same as in the caps that should be more than big enough.

My center main cap is 9/16" proud of the pan rails at the center lug, the others are 1/2" or less. So I need at least a 13/16" girdle and 7/8" would be better. 1" is probably not necessary. That being the case, there is no advantage to me in using alloy steel and 1018 cold rolled is the most practical choice. For a flat plate (not stepped) alloy might be a good option, and even a tool steel might be considered if price is not a concern, allowing use of as thin as a 3/8" plate and still having great strength. But I doubt anyone is going to pony up for that, at least not on the first go around.

Finally, as long as we're doing it, go ahead and lay out the pickup spacer in one of the drops (where the crank throws are) and include it with the plate. The extra cost for cutting that out is negligible and it avoids making another part for those who choose that option. You might also ask the guy if he can do a rapid travel over the path for the cut line for that option to mark the plate for the cutout. If that works it won't weaken the plate and will eliminate errors.

For those of us who know a shop with a waterjet, it is probably cheaper to buy the steel locally and just give them the file rather than pay to ship the steel. That's the way I'd prefer to do it. (Setup is minimal, load the file and lay the material on the table.) If you have access to a drill press, a pair of counterbores can be bought for about $20 each so why pay a machinist unless you're making a stepped plate?

What did I miss? Oh yes, counterbores come either with replaceable pilots or with fixed ones sized for bolt clearance holes. Usually 1/32" over the nominal bolt size and it needs a little running clearance. Don't forget about the taper. If this seems like too much, you have to use a replaceable pilot type and cut a special pilot for it. This has the advantage of allowing you to cut different sized counterbores for a given hole size.

Jim

 

I am going to try to call Sony Seal one last time to try to get a hold of his template.

 

Whats the advantage of haveing the flanges?Im losto No: .

 

you may build youre own headers, i guess more specificly for cars with 350 swaps like the 64-67 cars or any non buick..or for custom turbo headers

 

Ah.

 

Re: Update on the Flanges

My weekend email from the header guy, says that the flanges are done! and should ship Tuesday. I asked for a picture to see if they are as nice as I expect them to be. :beers2:

On the girdle: I stripped down a 1970 block and started taking measurements with vernier calipers. Almost got it clean, but ran out of brake cleaner. Yes a 350 oil pan will fit in the top rack of the wife's new Bosch dish washer while she is shopping. No guts no glory.

I did a Sonny and used a piece of plexiglass from Home Depot and traced and centered the pan holes on the plastic. Traced the crank throw cutouts. Tried 6 different free CAD programs, but they are not very easy. I am trying to make CadStd work. http://www.cadstd.com/dlfrom.html

My brother is a ME. I will try to talk him into drawing it up if he still does that. Still need to mark and measure the mains, and detail the crank throw cut outs. Make a model off the drawing and test to block.

 

Re: Update on the Flanges

Sweet! Just in time for my birthday.

 

Re: Update on the Flanges

You got balls my friend :TU:

My girl friend came home and had a **** fit when she found me rebuilding my QJet on the dining room table- making the whole place reak of gas.

 

Re: Update on the Flanges

keep us posted I can paypal you $ or send cheque just let me know!

 

Our flanges should ship from California to Georgia today::TU:

 

Beautiful!! I'm psyched. Warm up the Tig machine.:Brow:
Well done Tom. I'm impressed with how quickly you were able to get this done.
Figure the payment and shipping details and we can "git r done".:TU:

 

Nice looking!So you guys are trying to make a custom oil pan also??

 

I've decided to do a "partial" girdle for my 340. I need about 3/16" more pan clearance for the rods but don't want to lift the engine too much so I think I'll make a pan spacer with stubs out to the main studs. Won't be that much but it will help keep the caps from walking. I would really like to have the layout file when you have it, I'll check it to make sure it fits the 340 as well as the 350 and help in other ways if I can.

Jim

 

Where's Waldo????:laugh:
Tom? Did you hurt yourself trying to lift that box?
Haven't heard from you in a few days.