Finally dropped the tank and found the build sheet! hey Duane!

Discussion in 'The "Paper Trail"' started by CJay, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Ive been meaning to drop the tank on my 70 since I bought it. It looked like the tank was never touched and I suspected the build sheet was there. Even bought a new tank for it last year because the original one has a dent in it. I hate dented gas tanks. So since Im on a repair and upgrade kick, I broke out the tools and dropped the tank tonight. I ran the car super low in preparation yesterday, I thought I was going to run out of gas!

    Well, it looks like whover was working that day installing gas tanks, taped it to the edge of the tank instead of the middle...dumbass! So most of it was hanging off the edge. After 43 years, most of it was lost to time. But the left upper section remained intact. Although not much of it is legible.

    I can make out-

    Line number 1175. (does that mean it was the 1175th car off the line?)
    Date 3/10
    Heater- HG
    Trim J6
    Whatever is next to "Trim" has a code of "AL" or "AE"

    Towards the bottom it says-

    Steering wheel - RJ
    Radiator GJ (?)

    Too bad its in such crappy shape. I got so excited seeing paper under the tar sheet, then I was let down by the condition. Oh well. I think thats the last piece of documentation to be found. It still has a little hand written piece of paper hog ringed to the bottom of the pasenger seat with some option codes.

    On the bright side, I found the fuel sock destroyed and most of it was sucked up in the pickup clogging it up. Im hoping to pick up some extra HP after the new tank goes in!

    2012-07-11_21-34-47_814.jpg
     
  2. hwprouty

    hwprouty Platinum Level Contributor

    Geez that's pretty mangled, amazing you got as much info as you did!
     
  3. Duane

    Duane Member

    Jason,
    Talk about toast.

    Well I can tell it was a non-AC car, and had a black interior for a big block and a black Rallye steering wheel,
    but that's about all. The rad code is probably "SJ" which would be for a non-AC 455. (non-stage 1 car)

    Does the body number match your car?

    Check to see if the "tag" under the seat has the number 1175 with a circle around it at the top, and let me know.
    Duane

    PS. If you hold the sheet in front of a light and play with the angle and or distance from the light (to get shading) you may come up with more codes. (and people wonder why I am going blind........................its from staring at old buildsheets.)
     
  4. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Well, 35 years in Wyoming will do that.:grin:

    Thats pretty good. :TU:Its a non A/C Stage 1 4 speed with a black interior. I'll have to take a closer look at that radiator code. Its really hard to make out. Is there any way to reproduce whats missing?
     
  5. robs71redriv

    robs71redriv robs71redriv

    A high resolution scan 600 dpi - the run thru photo program and adjust curves /brightness/contrast / color and saturation / exposure convert to B&W what your program is capable of -- will some times bring out things on damaged paper - I have even got info from smoke damaged and lightly bruned and oil soaked paper playing with the settings - if you have more than photo program try them all ( of course save copy each you see something new.)
     
  6. Duane

    Duane Member

    Jason,
    "AL" would work for an Instrument Cluster for a,
    " 4-speed without speed alert" for a "Late" build date,

    but you need to check the body number to make sure it matches before you get too excited about this.

    Either the sheet does not match your car, or the code for the rad is wrong, plus if its an "AE" code, that does not work at all.

    As far as reproducing whats missing, yes I can figure out what all of the codes would be from looking at the info/parts on the rest of the car (except for the key codes) but I will not do that.
    Sorry.
    Duane
     
  7. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Body number matches, I checked.

    Yeah, its really hard to make out. I used a small artist brush to try and remove the dirt and came up with a couple more codes and verified a couple others. The car was verified by Wayne Roberts, so it is what it is.

    The second character for the radiator is a "J" for sure. The first character is hard to make out, its either an O, G, S or a C.

    Fan shroud is C
    Courtesy A
    Conv- 3 (what is that? its a hardtop! )
    Steering column KV (?) its got a tilt in it
    Fuel 4
    I cant make out whats next to fuel, but the next box has a 2 in it.
    Whatever is next to radiator says 1C (?) maybe
    Second line, under "Brake" theres a box for clutch. Says C maybe? Next to that looks like a 4

    Thats enough for tonight. The desk in my office is full of dirt and I think Im blind now
     
  8. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Wretched Excess

    Jason.

    There is some confusion regarding the codes used for radiators. I have seen SJ used on POBF sheets for non-AC GS455 cars (both Stage 1 and non Stage 1, both auto and manual transmissions *). And I have seen SW used on POBF sheets for air conditioned GS455 cars*. There seems to be no differentiation used on the POBF radiator codes for transmission coolers. It is clear that manual transmission cars used a different radiator as no trans cooler was used, but the codes on the POBF do not seem to reflect it. Duane has seen more of these POBF sheets than I have, and is more of an authority than I, but it seems to me that a limited number of POBF radiator codes were used.

    3 in the "Conv" box under lamps indicates car was equipped with trunk and map light option (Convenience group), and there should be an A in the "Trunk" box to the right of it.
    KV indicates a floor shift tilt steering column. (but I was thinking KR would be correct for a 4-speed column) Maybe Duane can verify this.
    The box to the right of fuel is "Expert prep". Anything in this box indicates your car was subject to additional scrutinity during assembly. :TU:
    The box to the right of the brake and clutch pedal boxes is "Shift Link". 4 is correct for a M-20 option car.

    I wish your POBF sheet was in better shape.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  9. Duane

    Duane Member

    Guys,
    I have already posted enough open info regarding the 1970 Manufacturing codes that took me 18 years of cross referencing buildsheets to figure out.

    Jason,
    I will make you a deal, being as your sheet is in such bad shape and "sparse" as far as readable info, If you do the following I will decode your sheet for free. Then you can have all your info decoded on a nice clean sheet and I will not be posting anything else openly.

    This is what I need you to snail-mail to me;
    1. I need a full size photocopy of the untouched "toasted" buildsheet,
    2. Write everything you can figure out down exactly like you see it on a second copy of the buildsheet,
    3. Give me the info off the id plate on the firewall,
    4. The full vin #,
    5. A copy of the Wayne Roberts info if you want to send it,
    6. Your full address, with a phone number and times I can call, if I have any questions.
    7. and send it all to;

    Classic Car Interiors
    120 President Ave.
    Rutledge, Pa. 19070

    or you can hand me a copy of all this at the BPG show if you want.
    Duane

    PS. I also want a copy of the small Fisher Body "cheat sheet", as I call them, that is under your seat. I can decode this also and can prove either yes/no if it was for your car.
     
  10. Rich Johns

    Rich Johns Platinum Level Contributor

    Jim
    I have had several 1970 GS 455 and GS/GSX Stage 1 4 speed cars and all had 3 core HD Radiator with factory plugs in trans cooler ports on radiator tank.
    These radiators were from original untouched 4 speed cars.
    This will explain these above radiator codes.
     
  11. Duane

    Duane Member

    ".....4 speed cars and all had 3 core HD Radiator with factory plugs in trans cooler ports on radiator tank."

    Richard,
    I still have a pair of original 4-speed radiator plugs laying around somewhere from one of those cars, and mine came out of an "SJ" rad. Buick often did not use so called 4-speed radiators due to the small numbers of cars produced. They did not follow the same procedures as Chevrolet, who made a ton of stick cars.

    They figured; "Why stock another part if you don't have to." That is also why all the Flint cars got the yellow clip on the engine cradle for the auto trans lines even if they were stick cars.

    Same idea, "KISS", keep it simple stupid................to reduce production costs.

    There is another thing going on here. This is a Flint buildsheet, not GMAD, and Buick Motor Division ran Flint, so they could care less what "Chevy" was dictating other plants to do. A Fremont or Framingham car may, and often did, use different parts.
    It was all a matter of jurisdiction.

    I will need to look at other sheets for 4-speed cars and see if any of them got the SJ radiator. Some of the stick car sheets do not follow the same logic as the automatics. In 70 there were also some "SS" codes flying around, it all depends on what was happening when the cars were built. Some codes changed during the production year, ie early/late................and don't even get me started about tire codes. Do you have any idea how often those changed? :Dou:
    Duane

    PS. After seeing all this talk above, you can see why I need all the info I can get from a car before I can figure out all the codes correctly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2012
  12. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

    Nice find Jason! I think it's cool that you found something...and it's for your car!
     
  13. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I will take you up on that Duane, thank you! I'll probably hand it to you at the nats. I'll have the car there too.
     
  14. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Jason, as you & others well know, more than one build sheet can be found in some cars. I've seen them under seats, front or rear, under the upholstery on the front seat backs, under the dash, under the front or rear door panels & even a few in the left A-Pillar post that's only really visible when the windshield is removed. It's ALWAYS exciting to find some history/documentation on our beloved rides.

    Tom T.
     
  15. Duane

    Duane Member

    "I'll have the car there too."

    I would like to see it.
    Duane
     
  16. BUQUICK

    BUQUICK I'm your huckleberry.

    I haven't been fortunate enough to own one myself, but I've also noticed some original, untouched '70 Stage 1 4-speed cars with SJ radiators with plugs in the tns cooler ports.

    At the 2010 GS Nats there was a 7,093 mile Bambo Cream '70 Stage 1 4-speed that was still owned by the original owner. It was a remarkable unrestored car that was perhaps the best survivor Stage 1 I've ever seen. I took some photos of the radiator because it was good evidence that the SJ radiator did come in 4-speeds. (Heck he bought the car new). Another cool thing about this radiator is that so nice that the the white paint highlighting thr SJ was still present. I've had people dispute that they highlighted the primary code with white paint, but I've seen several low mileage cars with it that way.

    Jason,
    Very cool that you found the sheet and that it was actually for your car. Congrats.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I took the passenger seat out and carefully removed the "cheat sheet". I didnt think it would of come out that easy and in one piece.

    First line says "95" or "9S". then 4637, A02, B22, M20 and D33. There were more codes written, but unfortunately, theres a piece missing. But its pretty cool it survived all those years under the seat!

    2012-08-20_10-02-16_374.jpg
     
  18. jj455

    jj455 1970 Stage 1

    Jason, My 4 Speed Stage1 no air that was once owned by Duane, Also has the SJ that is clearly visible on the build sheet for the radiator.
     
  19. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    I guess they werent concerned about us losing points at a show! :laugh:


    I did some internet research on the cheat sheet. I think I got these right-

    A02- tinted windshield
    B22- door panel emblem
    D33- left side remote mirror
    M20- 4 speed trans (that one everyone knows)

    I hit the POBF carefully with a toothbrush today and uncovered a couple of other codes after angling this thing all different ways under all kinds of light.

    Battery- 6
    Air cleaner Im pretty sure says "C6"
    I decoded the first three characters of the trunk code for Duane, the 4th was difficult to see but Im 99% sure the 4th character is "7"
    Console is 2

    I also carefully peeled the tape off the sheet and found the code "46" under model
     
  20. Duane

    Duane Member

    Jason,
    The number at the top of the sheet will be "95" not "9S"

    I will add the other info on the POBF.

    I already knew the last number for the trunk key code was a "7".:laugh::laugh::laugh:
    Duane
     

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