Dyno day part 2

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Briz, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Finally after many months of saving , buying, setback after setback got the engine back on the dyno. Made 3 or 4 pulls to 6000 rpm. Got a best of 618hp @ 5800 and 606 tq @ 4500. Not exactly what I was looking for on this build but good enough for now. The bad news is after the pulls I opened the oil filter and it was pretty loaded with silver flakes. No brass just silver. Sort of sucks. If something has shifted in the bottom end I'm done with this build and will start saving for the tomahawk build.

    NCM_0619[1].jpg NCM_0620[2].jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  2. BuickGSrules

    BuickGSrules Gold Level Contributor

    I hope everything is okay.
     
  3. Stevem

    Stevem Well-Known Member

    If it's not a roller then it could be Cam break in related, or rocker to retainer interference related?
    too many things to list here, are the flakes magnetic.
    Depending on what the motors VE was on those pulls, it took some 300 cfm per cylinder to make that 618 hp, and if that's the case and dependant on the motors compression, 300 cfm should have go ya closer to 650 HP.
     
  4. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    arp moly lube will cause that.


    140 lbs of oil pressure? Wtf? that's not kosher
     
  5. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    13-1 compression, roller cam / lifters. 1.70 rockers. TA TE S3 heads,ported. Rockers were clearanced on assembly last time and again when we ran it before the oil pump problem which caused its demise the first time. The flakes were deff steel and not aluminum. If there was that much material in the filter just from the rockers there wouldnt be any rocker left.

    After the problems with the mechanical HV pump that took out the engine last yr I got with Steve @ SRE and bought a simi bad assed Peterson ext pump and made a wet sump system. Covering my bases. Also plumbed in a oil line to the back of the block. The 140 was the int crank up. After adjusting the bypass 3 turns out it brought it down to 100 at WOT and around 25 idle hot using Joe Gibbs. Hated throwing 2 gals of high$ oil out after 15 mins of total run time. After draining out the oil the bottom of that pan looked like one I saw on Gold Rush only with silver flakes. They would be ecstatic to see a pan that looked like that. Me, not so much.



    Got a message last night from the shop that they had pulled the pan and rods / mains look good, Block is not cracked. Wants me to come by this morning. I'll report back later.
     
  6. mbusher83

    mbusher83 Well-Known Member

    Keep us posted Briz
     
  7. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Keep us posted. Is this a Buick knowlegeable shop doing the work?
     
  8. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Local shop and I trust the builder. They build and race 632 outlaw class cars. He's done several other Buicks inc the one in the Riv. We Used the Joe Gibbs oil on start up. Its new to me and to them. Turns out that Joe Gibbs oil has large particles of zinc that appear to be metal flakes. Opened a new bottle poured some into the cap and it looked just like what came out of my engine. After pulling the main and rod caps there is no wear on the bearing surfaces. Little shiney spots but not ate up oil starved out of line damage like I expected. Just to cover all bases he volunteered to completely disassemble the engine. check every part and reassemble then re run on the dyno next week.
     
  9. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    WOW, Hopefully its just the Joe Gibbs oil with the zinc flakes:pray:
     
  10. BrunoD

    BrunoD Looking for Fast Eddie

    Hi Briz,when I started my race car I had about 140 or so oil pressure.We ,my son and I,tried everything,finally went with a inline Petersen oil pressure regulator.I can put the pressure anyplace I want with it,We have 80 pounds cold ,30 pounds hot at idle.12-1 compression S-2 heads.Congratulation on finding the problem before you sank more time and money into it.What a relief that most have been.Bruno.
     
  11. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I hope you got more then 300 cfm out of stage 3 ta heads? More like 385+ on up. Those heads can flow if done right.
     
  12. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    Zinc flakes sounds odd. Have you poured a new quart into a pan to see the flakes? How do zinc flakes help an engine?
     
  13. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    We did and yes there was. Pulled the pan and the caps. all looked fine. no problems with the cam and lifters. Probably going to run it again in the next few days.
     
  14. Jim Rodgers

    Jim Rodgers Well-Known Member

    Let me know. My want to drive down for it.
     
  15. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Will do
     
  16. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    They should have a huge, bright warning label on the oil bottle and case...***Caution, this oil is sparkly! etc. etc....***
     
  17. HotRodRivi

    HotRodRivi Tomahawks sighted overseas

    that would be nice , so you dont go nuts tearing apart your motor for nuthin. Maby it says to shake vigoursly for one minute before you pour it in.
     
  18. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Or make the flakes neon pink.
     
  19. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

  20. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    Sup Buick Peeps,
    Ran the engine again yesterday. Made total of 5 pulls. average Hp was 620 @ 5800 Some a bit higher some a bit lower. Tq came in @ 680/ 4500 RPM. After 5800 the HP fell off like a rock. Drained and checked the filter twice. Pulled the valve covers and checked the rockers. There was still some very fine flake looking material in the pan but it was not magnetic and when rolled around between my fingers had no texture. 0 in the filter media.
    Now my issues is going to be getting the oil pressure under control. it runs 30 at hot idle of 1200 rpm and as high as 110 psi at WOT. I'm gonna message Steve (SRI) for advice. I have the bypass backed out about as far as it goes. helped some but not enough. Probably gonna need a lighter spring and a smaller sprocket to slow the pump down.
     

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