Do I need a block girdle?

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by nitrousfish, May 14, 2006.

  1. nitrousfish

    nitrousfish Dave Fisher

    Hey guys,all my stuff's at the machine shop and I need to make the decision on a girdle before any more work is done. It's pretty standard stuff,stage2 tracks (cleaned up ,not ported),12:1 flattops .038 over,solid ~.600 lift cam,4500 carb on ported ta sp2 plus nitrous. This isnt an engine thats gonna be beat every weekend,but it'll probly get around 50 or so passes this year on 1/8th and 1/4. Thanks...fish
     
  2. xxtremeGS

    xxtremeGS Mike Barbarino

    At the very least I would have the main caps dolled and maybe a girdled oil pan for extra insurance. That's what I'm running and I making 630hp & 600 lbft torque.
     
  3. 70 gsconvt

    70 gsconvt Silver Level contributor

    I was told by several racers that 600 hp was the cutoff for not wanting to have one. Sounds with the combo that you're going to be very close, if not over that.
     
  4. Running

    Running Midwest Buick Mafia


    Does the Poston girdled pan actually work?
     
  5. Kelly Eber

    Kelly Eber I'd rather be racing

    That depends on how soon you want to build another engine.

    I like how you say nitrous, but not how much. Sounds to me like it would be a very good idea.
     
  6. carhell

    carhell Well-Known Member

    yes

    I would do it now. Just the peace of mind knowing I have one when I go to the track was worth it for me. It wasnt in my budget on my build, but I did it anyway because a short lived engine would have have ruined any plans for a long time(not to mention my marriage). Thats my opinion. Shawn
     
  7. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Tic Tic Tic

    Here's a block with no sauce and iron heads :Do No: . Your combo should make 600 to 625 hp without sauce. It should be internal balanced and girdled. If your lucky like me, I got to save everything but my block. Chris
     

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  8. bobc455

    bobc455 Well-Known Member

    My engine is a lot milder than that and I run one (because of my nitrous).

    Even without the juice I think you'll need one with that setup. And you KNOW you'll want to hit the juice...

    -Bob Cunningham
     
  9. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    i would agree that you should.better safe then sorry
    what rods are you useing? stockers might be at there limits here too
     
  10. street rep

    street rep Well-Known Member

    they say you should girdle it over approx. 600 to 650 hp depending on rpm range and weather its stroked or not and weve seen the broken blocks to prove it.but here's somthing to think about,last year i was at the nats and the fastest guy in the gs se class was running w no girdle,he ran 9.50 i think. thats gotta be around 800 hp go figure that,if anyone knows how he did that w/o spittin rods out the hood please enlighten us
     
  11. perry carlini

    perry carlini Well-Known Member

    An old iron head combination I had years ago made 612 HP and always wore the rear half of the rear mains after a season of running. The girdled pan cleared all of that up. It also has done a great job of holding together an aluminum rod short block that has gotten a 3800 lb GS well into the 9's. You hear stories about 800 HP combinations with nothing extra on the bottom, and 650 HP girdled engines coming apart....my rec would be to girdle it if your going to spray it, and use a good aluminum rod, and internal balance.
    Regards,
    PC
     
  12. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    I have someones old iron headed nitrous engine and the mains flopped aroung in the breeze ungirdled. That engine was probably 650 hp with n20. I would say atleast put a halo girdle on it. The heavier the rotating ass., the more support you will need.
     
  13. nitrousfish

    nitrousfish Dave Fisher

    What's involved in internal balance?

    I have Eagle 6.7 connecting rods for it,JW The Wheel flewplate,Romac damper for external balance,nod crank cut down to 2.0. What is the advantage of internal balance? I dont mind doing the girdle ,its just gonna take even more time at the shop...I'm really itchin to get this thing on the track and I dont plan on missing Salem. Anybody got a girdle they wanna sell? thanks...fish
     
  14. Kelly Eber

    Kelly Eber I'd rather be racing

    I believe the internal balance is easier on the crank.
     
  15. 10sec 455

    10sec 455 Well-Known Member

    Internal balance is easier on the block along with the crank. Your taking the balance weight off the ends of the crank with an internal balance.
     
  16. GRIMM

    GRIMM Well-Known Member

    what does it take to convert an engine (430) to internal balance?
     
  17. bigdawg70

    bigdawg70 1984 Buick Regal

    save it

    save the money on the girdle and spend it sum where else the block is 30 years old if going to break its going to break ive seen cars in the 8's wit no girdle and ive seen plenty of cars wit girdles break. For the added weight and money you going too spend its not worth it to me
     
  18. buicksstage1

    buicksstage1 Well-Known Member

    Are you talking about BBC or BBB?

    Ok the first 30 years of that blocks life the main caps were stable due to the fact it made 300 hp less then it will with his combo :Dou: I have to know, you say (you've seen cars in the 8's wit no girdle) I'm dying to see your list of NO GIRDLE 8 second rides, and if there is a list how many passes have they made :Do No: unless you mean 8 sec 1/8. :grin: Chris
     
  19. alec296

    alec296 i need another buick

    my thought is if your putting together an engine with all used cheap parts
    and going to run it til it blows and have little bucks in it then go with
    no girdle and take your chances but if your putting some costly parts
    and major $$$ into machine work and alum heads then i would want
    to make sure my engine will stay togheter rather then repair the damage
    that can happen if engine grenades
     
  20. bigdawg70

    bigdawg70 1984 Buick Regal

    here we go agree to disagre

    ok chris first off the former fastest v-8 powered car did not run a girdle he was in salem two years ago runnin well into the 8's!!!!!!! The blue car from buick performance from chicago has gone into the 8's with i know ova 25passes and using nitrous without a girdle i was i bowling green and seen a couple of guys runnin in the mid to low 9's with no girdle. Ok here you go yes Rod runs a girdle Rod also is probably around 1200-1500hp so how many naturally aspirated cars are up there??????????? :Do No: From what i see a girdle aint nuttin but a band-aid yes a buick block is weak yes the the material around the crank and cam is thin and brittle but drilling into is not the answer. This is my opinion i know!! but drilling into sumthin that is already inferior and and more weight and stress is not the answer!!!!!! as far as 600 hp being the breaking point i disagree my basically stock motor is close to that that i have run for the last 5 years in my car with a good shot of nos!!!! This is one the reasons that alot of people are scared to runs buick because people arer telling them that they need to spend alot of extra money to put one together i had multiple people come up and say that people say they need it but me and my freind have showed them that its not neccesary. every one can :ball: (cry) that you need but i see it every day its not needed
     

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