Guy's if you are interested I am going to set up a time maybe Monday next week to have a chat on the chat forum ether here or maybe on another board I will let you know. Rick will post his ideas and we will go over them from there I have made several changes to what he has but it's just my opinion. You need to be serious about running the class not just someone that wants to throw in their 2 cents worth and not show to run. We really want this class to work out so we need good solid feedback. This may take an hour or two but I would really like the racers point of view. I do not intend on stepping up to this from GSE but figured if I can get it into the nats we could have a killer class. Let me know if you all are up to this and I will finalize the info on were we will get together.
thanks Bob I'll be there...I have a car and a stage2 464 that will be ready when this goes off...I'll be there no if ands or :moonu: ...fish
Chat..... I'm ready for the chat. Just say when and where. I would not use the chat on v-8. Too slow and it does not display the whole discussion so you can loose track of information fast. t6p is suppose to have a pretty good chat room available but you have to down load it?? What about Yahoo?? You can set up a room just for the chat, conversation can be saved, and you can also voice chat as well... 1/8 mi, nitrous, weight........NO "porkchops,,,,Single/dual sytems-NO HP Limits,,,,, NO 1/4mi gernade toss......... :rant:
Not for nothing Bobb, but buickland chat has several rooms in it. You could set up your own there no problem. And the chat is "saveable" there. You have been in that room before I know(talked to ya there), so you may feel a bit more comfy with the workings there as you know whats going on. Just an idea for everyone...........
Porkchops . . . Well, No. Porkchops definitely don't make the Buicks faster. More like throwin' out the anchor. :laugh: porkchops......means no "fat-boy" weight requirements for the car. I don't want to see 3600 lb anything! :rant: I don't know of any heavier classes than what the Buick Community runs on 10" tires... It sure has got to be a pain in the azz to compete outside Buick world not to mention that much harder on parts. Like they don't break enough on their own.
Ok guy's we will meet over at buickland at 8:00 monday we will have our own room over there they said they would love to have us. if you are not a member go over and join up that way you won't miss anything monday. Rick repost your rules so all can print them as a reference. we will start with number 1 and go right threw them. any ?s post them here
Ok guy's we will meet over at buickland at 8:00 monday we will have our own room over there they said they would love to have us. if you are not a member go over and join up that way you won't miss anything monday. Rick repost your rules so all can print them as a reference. we will start with number 1 and go right threw them. any ?s post them here
Heres the rules.. Here we go, now we can make it happen! :Brow: :beer CLASS DESCRIPTION Buick Limited Street is a heads up class designed for stock appearing Buicks produced 1960-1987. Vehicles in this eliminator are allowed ladder bar suspension. Stock front frame rails and firewall are required. Entries are permitted small block or big blocks with superchargers, turbochargers, or nitrous. All entries compete on a 10.5-inch wide sidewall non W' designated slick or 13.5 (11.25 max tread) DOT-approved tire. No tire may exceed a 30.5 diameter. All Run, NHRA Sportsman Ladder, Pro .400 tree, Heads-Up. REQUIREMENTS AND SPECIFICATIONS BALLAST Removable ballast for the purpose of classification adjustments is limited to 100 pounds in an NHRA/IHRA-legal weight box. Maximum allowable removable/permanent is 200 lbs. Ballast must be bolted to frame or crossmember with a minimum of two inch diameter bolts per 100 lbs. Water reservoirs for use with intercoolers/aftercoolers are not considered ballast and are permitted. Must maintain 50% of the vehicle weight on the front tires. BODY The body must retain its original appearance and profiles. Original OEM body shell type and dimension required. Aftermarket fiberglass replacement panels are limited to the hood, hoodscoop, bumpers, and OEM appearing replacements are allowed for other bolt on items as long as weight ratio and minimums are maintained. Aerodynamics - Taping of any parts of body, seams, or front end is prohibited. Bumpers - Stock appearing bumpers for body used made of any material permitted. Fender Splash Pans - Removable fender splash pans are acceptable. Fenderwells not required. Firewall - Firewall must be original and in stock location. Floor/Trunk Pan stock floor and truck pan required. No removable transmission tunnels. Stock floor pans and trunk pan required but may be notched for sub-frame connectors or suspension components. Trunk pan may be notched for fuel cell or fuel pump placement. Grille - A full-production grille is required for the body style used. Clear lexan may be used to cover the grill surface only. May be install on the front or back surface of the grill. Hood/Scoop - Hood is required and may be made of lightweight material. Cowls and factory type forward facing scoops only. May be liftoff. No ducts or scoops may be protruding into air stream on blower/turbo entries. No visible altercations to outside body for fresh air. Hood scoop allowed for n/a but mounting flange on carbs or top of efi venturis may not be more than below bottom of hoodscoop opening. Hood/scoop must cover entire engine and induction components. Interior - Dash, stock-appearing steering column, and seats must be in stock locations. Stock-type gas and brake pedals in stock location are required. Clutch pedal may be relocated and aftermarket pedal and linkage are permitted. Full upholstery, carpeting, and headliner are required. If rear wheelwells are modified, they are required to be painted. Aftermarket bucket seats are allowed. A full stock dashboard with instruments (aftermarket instruments are allowed) and controls must be retained. A heater is optional. The back seat may be deleted if it interferes with a rollcage. Lettering/Decals - Car lettering is limited to windows only. Wheel tubs - In order to clear legal tires, mini-wheel tubs are acceptable but are required to be painted and not to protrude into the interior more than 1 past notched/or stock frame rail. Wheelwell Openings - The front wheelwell openings must be stock. The rear wheelwell openings may be enlarged to provide a maximum of 1.5 inches of clearance, as measured from the tire tread to the rocker panel in front and to the lower quarter-panel in back. Modified openings must be finished to factory appearance. Windshield/Windows Side windows must be OEM safety glass. FRONT Windows must be operative but closed during racing. Front and rear windows may be lexan but must appear OEM. No lexan allowed that requires support or that does not conform to the original contour of OEM without support. No crazed, fogged, or weathered lexan that that creates a safety hazard and does not pass for the clear appearance of OEM glass. Wings/Spoilers - Factory available front and rear spoiler or wing for specific year/make/model of body used will be allowed. A maximum of a 12 aftermarket rear wing is allowed with a maximum side height of 3.5. BRACKET RACING AIDS Bracket racing aids such as optical sensors, delay boxes, stutter boxes, and throttle stops are not allowed. The application or use of any device, mechanical or electronic, that permits the driver to ascertain the position of their vehicle in relation to the starting line is prohibited. BRAKES The braking system may be upgraded. All cars must have front and rear hydraulic brakes. Automated brakes or any type of traction control is prohibited. Application and release of brakes must be a function of the driver's foot. Line loc permitted on front wheels only. Any other electric, pneumatic, or hydraulic device in the system is prohibited. CHASSIS/SUSPENSION Chassis - Front framerails must remain in the stock location and may not be altered for the purpose of providing tire clearance. Tubular crossmembers are permitted. If the rear frame is notched, it must be reinforced in a manner acceptable to NHRA/IHRA. Any strengthening members may be added to a stock frame. Front Suspension - Aftermarket direct-replacement components are allowed as long as stock mounting points are maintained on components and frame. Coilover shocks are permitted in stock spring location. Rear Suspension - Ladder bar, or modified stock suspension. Mounting points for stock type suspension may have multiple attach points for geometry change but must be in stock location. COOLING SYSTEM Radiator - must be mounted in stock location. No restriction on size. Water Pump - Electric water-pumps and drives are allowed. DRIVETRAIN Automatic Transmission - Any OEM type automatic transmission with torque converter is allowed. Transbrake is allowed. Aftermarket shifter allowed but any gear change must occur as a result of an internal function of the transmission or as direct action of the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters prohibited. Manual Transmission - Manual gear type transmission w/clutch add 200lbs to minimum weight. No planetary Lencos, Libertys, Jerico type transmission. Gear change must occur by clutch interruption from driver. Rearend - Any automotive type allowed, any ratio. ELECTRICAL The battery may be relocated. Electric fans and water pump drive allowed. Charging system must be operative. ENGINE Must be Buick. Any make Buick engine in any allowed body style. There is no cubic inch limit. Any internal engine modifications are allowed. Block - Aftermarket blocks are permitted. There are no restrictions on internal modifications. Engine Locations/Mounts - The block and heads must not touch the firewall. Firewall must be in stock location. Motor plates and solid engine mounts are allowed. Heads - Aftermarket cylinder heads are restricted to cast aluminum or cast iron. Adapter plates are permitted on intake. Oiling System - Any wet or dry sump oiling system is allowed. Accusumps are acceptable, but mounting is not allowed in driver's compartment, outside of frame, or body. The front crossmember may be altered for oil-pan removal. Vacuum pumps are acceptable. Vacuum pumps allowed. Valvetrain - Any valvetrain may be used. EXHAUST All entries are allowed to use tubular headers. The headers must be connected to a working exhaust system with mufflers. Removal or modification of muffler internals is prohibited (no gutting). Exhaust pipe OD is unlimited, and the exhaust pipe must extend beyond the leading edge of the driver's seat with the exhaust directed to the side by means of a turndown. Mufflers also required on turbocharged entries but exhaust may exit behind front wheel. All exhaust must pass thru the muffler(s). FUEL/DELIVERY SYSTEM Delivery System - Fuel cells, electric fuel pumps, pressure regulators, and any line size is permitted, but the fuel pump must shut off with a master electrical switch. Fuel - Only gasoline is allowed. The class association reserves the right to check gasoline at any time during competition. The addition of chemical additives intended to alter the makeup of the gasoline for increased performance is strictly prohibited. During fuel check, a competitor must identify the brand of gasoline being used. The sample will be considered illegal if it does not match the baseline results (ex. color, dielectric reading +or-.2, and chemical tests). Failure to pass fuel check is grounds for disallowance of the run during competition and disqualification from the event during eliminations. IGNITION Aftermarket ignitions, magnetos, multiple-step rev limiters, electronic-conversion kits, crank triggers, and external amplifier boxes are allowed. INDUCTION Carburetors - Carbureted engines limited to a single commercially available four-barrel carburetor. Naturally aspirated engines may run 2 four barrels without penalty. Split carburetor is not allowed. Any other modifications to the carburetor are allowed. Fuel Injection - Fuel injection limited to electronic type, either throttle body or multi-port injection. EFI engine limited to four, two, or one venturi in one housing. Maximum area allowed is four venturis 2.125 inches or equivalent single/dual venturi arrangement. EFI housing may be grouped similar to carburetor or inline. Intake Manifold - Restricted to commercially available single 4 barrel cast intake manifold except as outlined. Cast intake manifold is allowed provided it does not have any external modification to air flow areas. Cast intake manifold may be internally modified. Naturally aspirated engine can run 2x4 fabricated sheet metal intake or cast. Nitrous Oxide - Nitrous oxide is allowed but use is limited to only one of the three types described below. Nitrous oxide may not be used in conjunction with supercharger or turbocharger. Commercially available blanket type warmer accepted. The use of any agents other than nitrous oxide as part of, or mixed with, this pressurized fuel system is strictly prohibited. Type One: Wet Flow Plate system- This is a plate system for carburetor or throttle body injections. The use of 2 plates allowed. Plate(s) are limited to 4 total spray bars. 2-nitrous, 2-fuel. Spray may aim at runners but fuel/nitrous delivery hardware (nozzles, spray bars, etc) must be contained in removable plate(s), mounted directly between the carb or throttle body EFI and the intake manifold. No portion of a delivery system may extend below the bottom of its own plate. The use of 2 stages with 4 solenoids(2 fuel, 2 nitrous)allowed. 2 additional solenoids may be used to purge the system to the atmosphere. There may be 4 additional solenoids positioned in the nitrous and fuel delivery lines for interrupter activation(2-nitrous, 2-fuel). Type Two: EFI Dry System- This is a single stage system that injects only nitrous into the throttle body, plenum, or individual intake runners. A plate or nozzle(s), max of one nozzle per number of cylinders, may be used for dry nitrous injection. Limited to 2 nitrous solenoids. Both solenoids must activate simultaneously. 2 additional solenoids allowed in-line for interrupter activity. Type Three: Single Stage Fogger/Direct Port - This is a single stage port injection nitrous system for carburetor, throttle body injection, or multi-port EFI. For carburetor, only one dual port (nitrous oxide/fuel enrichment) nozzle per cylinder located in each port runner of the intake manifold is allowed. For throttle body and multi-port EFI, only one nitrous oxide nozzle per cylinder located in each port runner of the intake manifold is allowed. 2 nitrous and 2 fuel delivery solenoids are allowed and must be dedicated evenly between the engine's cylinders. 2 additional solenoids may be used to purge the system to the atmosphere. There may be 4 additional solenoids positioned in the nitrous and fuel delivery lines for interrupter activation (2-nitrous, 2-fuel). Bottles - All bottles must be securely mounted. Bottles located in driver's compartment must be equipped with the correct relief valve per manufacturer recommendations and vented outside the driver's compartment. Bottles are limited to one 10 lb bottle. The use of any agents other than nitrous oxide as a part of, or mixed with, this pressurized fuel system is strictly prohibited. (Push systems are prohibited.) Commercially available blanket type bottle heaters are acceptable. Nitrous oxide may not be used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger. If entry is teched at a non-nitrous weight break then all nitrous oxide lines, fittings, solenoids, and bottles must be removed before car will be allowed to pass tech. Electronics - Progressive systems and timers, which control nitrous/fuel delivery, are permitted. Electronic or automated boost controllers of any type are allowed on any forced induction vehicle. Ram Air No headlight removal or additional holes in exterior body for air intake other than specified in hood/scoop section Supercharger - The following makes and models of superchargers are the only units permitted. Injection of any liquid, gas or any other substance in before or after the inlet housing prohibited. Vortech A,B,S,Y,R,J,JT,T,YS, YSi & X trim models Procharger D1,D1X,D1R,F1,F1R models Procharger P600, D1SC, P1SC, P1SC-2, P1SC-H Paxton Novi SN,VR4,1000, 2000 models GEAR RATIOS: Internal gear ratios may not be altered from stock. PERMITTED GEAR RATIOS: Vortech - V1- S, A,B,Y,R,J,JT,T, YS, YSi & X trim models 3.45:1 Vortech - V2- S trim models 3.60:1 Procharger - D1,D1X,D1R 4.44:1 Procharger - F1,F1R 5.00:1 Procharger P600, D1SC, P1SC, P1SC-2, P1SC-H 4.10:1 Paxton Novi SN,VR4,1000, 2000 models 3.54:1 or 3.50:1 Turbocharger The follow list of turbo types are the only units permitted. Injection of any liquid, gas or any other substance in the inlet or exhaust housing prohibited. Maximum Single turbo size: Garret- all 3-Bolt or T-4 4-bolt housings w/ 4" inlet-3" oulet. Max size turbo allowed GT4288-(Max Inducer Wheel Dimimension 76mm) GT42 super 76 GTS trim Precision Turbo- PT-88, 4" Inlet/3" Outlet Compressor Cover, with 3- Bolt or T4 4-bolt Turbine Housings Innovative - GT80-Y2K Maximum Turbo Size for twin setup: Any 3-bolt or T4 4-Bolt Turbo with a Maximum Inducer wheel Dimension of 61mm Maximum. Compressor Cover Inlets restricted to 3" inlet & 2" Outlet. No radiused inlets. All turbos must have the correct inlet size for compressor wheel used, No cross breeding. Inlet size measure at the turbo. Outlet size measure at the turbo. Turbo Placement - Turbo may be located anywhere inside the engine compartment, facing any direction. Inlet must not be forward of the leading edge of the hood. Turbo inlet may remain open to outside air but no ducts, tubing, pans that pull air directly(ram air) from the forward air stream. Aftercoolers/Intercoolers - Aftercoolers/Intercoolers are permitted. Air-to-air coolers or Air-to- water coolers are the only systems acceptable. Water and ice are the only two acceptable components allowed in reservoir. ONBOARD DIAGNOSTICS/DATA RECORDERS Onboard diagnostic computers and data recorders are allowed. Memory and playback tachometers are acceptable. Autometer Dual Channel Ultimate II tachometers are acceptable. No optical or rpm pickup of any kind allowed after the flywheel. STEERING Aftermarket rack-and-pinion steering is allowed. STREET EQUIPMENT The following operational street equipment is required: Head lights, tail lights, brake lights, turn signals. TIRES Rear tires may either be DOT-approved and labeled or labeled for racing slicks. DOT tires must have labels facing the outside of the body and are limited to a 30x13.5, tread not to exceed 11.25 measured. Slicks are limited to a maximum sidewall designation of 10.5 inches width and may never exceed 10.6 inches in width. No W' tires. No drive tire may have an advertised height greater than 30.5. The front tires are limited to 4.5-inch minimum tread width. The tread of tires must not protrude outside of the exterior of bodyline at top of tires. Tire will be checked with a go/ No-Go gage for width and height. WEIGHT BREAKS Weight breaks will be constantly evaluated to ensure parity with all combinations. Base Weight 3,000 lbs - Naturally Aspirated Big Block 3,000 lbs Nitrous Small blocks 3,000 lbs - Nitrous, may run at 7.5 lbs./ci up to 400 ci, 2.9 lbs/ci after that. 3,100 lbs Supercharged, turbo v-8 up to 360 inches. 2.9 lbs/ci for every inch over 360. Max weight 3550. 3,300 lbs - Turbocharged v-6 Air-to-water intercooler Add 100lbs Manual transmission Add 200lbs Max weight required for any and all combinations 3600lbs. WHEELBASE/WHEELS Wheelbase - Must retain stock wheelbase with a maximum variation from front to back of 2 inch. Wheels - Aftermarket wheels are permitted. A minimum width of 3.5 inches is required on the front rims
I ran EZ/S at 3950 (much ballast) went high 10's at 128 or so...was on 28x13.5 et street ,455 buick pistons,stage1 converted big port heads,TA 210s cam and as much nitrous as I could cram in there...fish car currently weighs 3510 wet with no ballast,and TA heads will take off what 60 lbs?.. o No:
Yeh, you'll lose some good weight but the HP gain will far better than the weight lost. You ready for this to happen or what! :Brow: :TU: SO who have you bugged to spray there Buick lately???? Don't come alone to discuss rules, bring a friend, right? :TU:
Buick land is down so we are to move this to saturday at 11.00. We are sorry about this but it happens. it will be on buickland again
Bobb, Just got here and saw this, I am on buickland now(7:21 pm). Seems slower than normal but its there ????? o No: o No:
Been on but get kicked off every few minutes. Asked me to relog in. We will be in the am eastern standard time.
One more time..... Hey Alan, I talked to a "good" turbo guy and it looks as if twin 60's or maybe 61's can run and be fair. You got anything to to throw that motor of your's in??? 11am on Saturday the Aug 27th we'll try again. I was up at 2:45 here to get this all done. :Comp: The v-6 turbo stuff is still getting thrashed out. We will be drawing a line real close to 1200hp on the turbo's. So there will be a limit between 76-88 depending on the turbo and whether it is a t-4 or t-5. THis is the only way to keep it fair in compairison to the superchargers which are all cut off at the 1200 range. We went to smaller twins on the v-8 so not to choke them out at rpm. Hp limit will still be held to the same....More to come.....
I've done too much to the wagon for it to fit the rules, and there's more on the way! :laugh: The wagon is being used to get me back in the swing of things and should be a solid foundation for me to sort the engine out AND to have fun with. And, I'm banking on the new block being out at some point. I never have liked the idea of spending tons of money on good parts to go in a block that is weak, although Rod has paved the way and seems to be doing well with the blower car right now. :TU: The 10.5 class sounds like fun and I'm paying attention to see how things go!
