Jeff, I agree with Gary K., don't tub it! Put in a programmable MSD ignition so you can take timing out on the hit and ramp it back in as the track condition permits. That and shock adjustments are a simple fix to your problem and you still keep flexibility with your car. I've run a 2-step for the last 5 years leaving between 2400-2800 rpm off the footbrake with absolutely no issues. Helps reaction times and 60' times. Good luck! Tom
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who misses the "real" GSE rules. Those "real" rules are what woke up the GSP class.
Thanks again for everyone's thoughts. It's good to have a discussion that brings everyone in once in a while. I agree Jim, I can't do the car show, look at it, wipe it down scene. :boring: Besides, I still have my Electra if I get a sudden urge to subject myself to that. I knew what Bobb would say - "Hack it up". I don't know if I can bring myself to cut a million 2" holes in my pristine core support, though . I'm really not a big fan of back-half cars now. I've always liked the stealth look like Gary's. Believe me, I've surprised more than one tubbed "Pro Street" car on test-n-tune days! I still would like to build a tube chassis car someday. Can't do it now Mike, the HOA says I have to have a "street legal" car. . The rear suspension I have now hooks hard on drag radials or 9" slicks on a well prepped track. I'm thinking that some 10.5" slicks and removing about 200 pounds off the nose will make it plant pretty consistent (and I could still run in GSP if I ever get back up there!). Good to hear from you Bruce. I was just getting the "hang" of GSE when ... oh well. I'm sure I still would have been one step behind a certain red car and a yellow car! Tell Ollie hello for me. Thanks all. Have fun.
I run a 10.5 slick & 8 inch wheel, Car weight is 3450 with my fat a**. I also have a ladder bar set up with adjustable shocks and (did not) cut up the car. I'm the one that Scott & Doug discussed earlier with the 3 step (1) Burnout chip 5400rpm (you don't have to keep it on the wood for long unless you like it!!! (2)Transbreak chip 3000rpm ( adjustable to track conditions and shock settings (3)Engine rev limiter chip 7000 (know your limits, by the way I shift @ 6200 Scott, took some great videos and pics on youtube Brett, took some great pics off the launch! 139 60ft 10.02@131 www.gsnationals.com/Frazee_GSNats_2008/ (Drive it like you stole it, it is yours!!!):3gears: :3gears: :3gears: Bob Frazee
heay Jeff, lets go back a liitle more time when they were even more good boys to play like Bill Locke, Gary Laughlin, and Brian Ligette. Now those were the days my friend! early 90's:beers2: :beers2:
Yeah, those were some cool cars. Bruce even went 9.98 with the 3800 lb rules. :shock: Remember the Apollo? :bglasses: We need to get together again sometime Fernando. Have fun.
Just build a cool light-weight core support and sell your pristine one to pay for the upgrade. I agree that if you drop some nose weight and get a MSD 7531 box that you should have no problem hooking a 10.5 tire.
Were are the post going in regards to this. There was a thread started about this thats gone Perry said he would get involved thats gone I would love to see this class come back. But it seems every time someone says let's do something their post disappears. There are allot of cars out there that could still run this class if the rules are wrote to allow cars not exclude them.
Bobb, The posts arent disappearing, they are still there. Its the guys that say they will bring a car but do not show up that are disappearing. I can name names but it isnt worth it, they know who they are. You of all people should know this since you organized the class for several years. All, Re-hashing all of this umpteen times over the years has gotten old. GSE has averaged 3-6 cars over the past 17 years or so no matter what the heck the rules are. Certain guys liked certain sets of rules because they happened to be competitive those certain years. But that did nothing for turnout. Now, can you really call 3-6 cars a "class" especially when only 2 or 3 are competitive and the rest are just ducks??? MOST events dont even run the class at all without an 8 car MINIMUM!!! The most cars the class EVER had was under my old (PRE GSE/GSM) rules in 2000, and that was a pathetic 9 cars when Bruce won it and Perry runner-upped. But the next year we only had 6 cars in the class which again isnt enuf and it died of even more after that. Again, most events wont even allow the class to run with less than 8 cars, and even fewer will payout to less than 8 cars. If any one of you want to take over GSE and GSP and implement the "old" rules then be my guest. Otherwise, as of now those classes are dead because I'm not doing them again due to lack of participation, no shows and broken promises. And there you have it...no GSE or GSP in 2009 at the GS Nationals unless someone steps up. Call Lasseter with a plan for the class and the sponsor dollars to make everyone happy and run with it. But rest assured that 2-4 cars in each class isnt going to be enuf (sponsors dont like it), and I would bet dollars to doughnuts that you wont get 4 cars in either one no matter what rules you have. Here is a for instance and why its so hard to get any cars: Laughlin: Broke motor in 2005 after standing the world on its ear with that 9.45 in BG and winning the "BPG Salem GSE Challenge". No plans to rebuild, too busy with kids. Liggett: Sold car years ago, lost interest. Steve Steele: sold engine, lost interest The Haeffners: Lost interest, went circle track racing. Locke: Sold car (?) and disappeared forever. Haas: Sold car, going in another direction. Didnt run GSE anyways. Mackley: Went in another direction after hard stop in 2004 was it? :shock: Going faster than ever now though! :3gears: Hart: A GSE old timer. Broke GSE motor in 2006, built stroker, didnt want to have to add weight under old GSE GSM rules so went another direction best I recall. Kitchen: No show in 2006 under old rules and didnt want to change car for new rules in 2007 and 2008. I dont blame him either. Dont remember him in the class before 2005 either, but could be wrong.o No: Fernando: Has he ever run GSE or GSP, at least since I've been born? Dominick: Never ran one of the classes but should have! No excuses. RACEBUICKS: Fit GSE under GSE/GSM rules but didnt run, knew he would get stomped :laugh:. Martinez: Fits GSP but doesnt run, too busy on the computer.:Comp: Chilenski: Left GSE many years ago under "Old" old rules. Last ran GSE in 1996. However, he fits GSP but doesnt run the class. Hasnt been to BG since before I could drive. :laugh: Smith: Left GSE in 1997 and has not been back to the Nationals "Old" old rules, "Old" GSE/GSM rules or not. Kubisch: No show in 2008, bought a house and say he didnt get married :shock: Crawford: No show in 2008, scared of Kubisch :blast: Turner: Sold GSE GSP car years ago, spectator ever since. Cory Ackley: No show in 2008, could be in Iraq (Thanks for your service to our country!!!!!) Benisek: No show in 2007 or 2008, Tow truck broke down in the desert 2008 but I heard his plans for 2009!!!!!!!!!! Dont miss it!!!!!!!! Kent: No show in 2007 or 2008 but won it many time before. Ollie: No show in 2007 or 2008, Laying on the beach in 2007, I know that for sure! And won it in years passed. Carlini: No show in 2005 (?), 2006, 2007 and 2008. But he did buy wings at Toots in 07. :grin: But didnt bring his GSE car. :blast: Not to mention me. I didnt want to change my car to meet the new rules in 2007 so I went another direction. A completely different direction. I could name more but I hope everyone gets the point. FACT IS, there was always a rabbit in the group and the cost to be competitive was getting too high under the "Original" Old Street Eliminator rules and the GSE/GSM rules especially. The interest hasnt been there for well over 10 years reguardless of rules, and to prove my point here is a little history lesson: 1991: "Junior Stock GS" rules requiring DOT's. A short list of rules because we didnt have much we could do to our GS's anyway. Norm Dihle ran 11.71 to Chilenski's 11.91 on DOT's. 7 or 8 cars in the class? 1992: "Junior Stock GS" class went away and was replaced by a new class called Street Eliminator with somewhat loose rules and allowing slicks for the first time in years. We will call these the "Old" Old Street Eliminator rules, Benisek brought his new red 70 GS with iron heads and a Dominator and ran 11.10 carrying the left front tire for what seemed like 300 feet. 7 or 8 cars in the class tops. 1993: Due to Benisek's performance in 1992, the rules were revamped to no Dominators and some other stuff slicks still allowed and would be forever more. Mainly the cams had to develop a certain amount of vaccuum, and a tough tech session was also implemented to check vaccuum, weight, gear, converter etc. Keith Smith, Chamberlain and Jim Turner organized the class and did the tech inspections. Keith Smith's 11.51 topped Tim Haeffners 11.61. 7 or 8 cars in the class tops. 1994: Rain Out. No classes were contested but believe it or not, there was not bitching and moaning about it either. 1995: "Original" old rules allowing iron Stage 1's but now with Dominators and not much cam requirement, Smith won with a 10.77 or so over Beniseks red GS, both with Iron Stage 1's. Maybe 7 cars total, but only 2 in the 10's. 1996: "Original" Old Rules allowing iron Stage 1's and with very little cam requirement rollers were allowed, Chilenski ran 10.53 with iron Stage 1's and roller cam and won with 3 or 4 cars in the class, maybe 5. It was Chilenski and Luke Held in the finals. 1997: "Original" Old Rules but allow roller cams and the new aluminum "Street Eliminator" heads and Dominators, 2 cars in the class. Anyone remember the looks on your faces when Smith ran the 10.27 @ 134 with a 1.51 60'? I do. You all looked like you just noticed a turd in your half eaten bowl of Fruit Loops, me included. We had 2 cars in the class that year (Smith and Laughlin) after Chilenski bailed out and went Super 16 racing. 1998: "Original" Old Rules but with threat of P and G meter on the winner, 2 cars. Laughlin/Hart co-winners, RAINOUT. 1999: "Original" Old Rules but now with threat of P and G to the winner and a $250 teardown bounty, Nat Trails we were again back down to two cars in GSE....Laughlin and Liggett, after Hart broke and drove 27 hours to get a new motor but couldnt get it ready in time. Laughlin won the class with 11 teens. First year I ever saw a dude named Bobb Mackley. I also bought a new Meziere water pump from a guy named Jeff Ketchum. 2000: We then built "new" rules to generate interest because the class was dead (I.E. the P and G, better known as the Bullshit Eliminator meter and we also had strict tech and scaling of all cars) and we had 9 cars in the class with the majority running 10.50's and everyone scaled and everyone got P and G'd. There was a LOT of PR that went into getting 9 cars there. I mean a LOT!!! At the time we thought we had done something special, but looking back it wasnt that big a deal after all. Bruce won with a 10.49 and Perry runner upped. 2001: Same "New" old rules as in 2000, only 6 cars in the class. Bruce Kent won in the Apollo with a 10.37 over Tim Haeffner's 10.51. Tim was cool to give Bruce a LOT of time to start the car at the line. I bailed out of organizing the class. 2002: Bobb Mackley, Jeff Hart and Gary Laughlin took the class over. Slightly "New" old rules for 2002 allowing less weight, I believe there were 6 or 7 cars in the class and Bruce won again with a 10.00 to Laughlins 10.11. 2003: Same "New" old rules as in 2002 allowing less weight, 4 cars or 5 maybe?? Steve Steele won with a 10.34 to Bruce Kents 10.61 in the Apollo. Bruce was cool to give Steve a LOT of time to start the car at the line. 2004: "New GSM GSE" rules as in 2002, 3-4 cars maybe more. Steve Steele won with a 10.31 over Bobb Mackley. 2005: Same "New GSM/GSE" rules allowing glass hoods and less weight etc, 7 cars, Ollie won with a 9.63 to Kents 9.77. But Gary L. comes in and lays down a legal 9.45 at 142 for low et in the class and the next year the class dropped off the map. Using the much beloved "old GSM/GSE rules" no less. For the first time in history, GSE is quicker and faster than GSP. 2006: "New GSM/GSE" rules with no scaling and no tech of the cars, 3 cars in the class and Ollie wins with a 9.59. 2007: Rules were changed to put the "Street" back in Street Eliminator. 3 cars in the class. Gentner wins with an 11.09. Biggest payout EVER for the class, and still only 3 cars. 2008: Same rules as 2007, only 1 car in the class. o No: So, as you can see, it doesnt matter what the rules are or who is organizing the class, or even what the payouts are. New or Old rules, heavy weights or flyweights, strict rules and tech or not or big or small payouts. It doesnt matter. The interest for the class year in and year out just isnt there. Period. Why do you think the BPG doesnt have GSE or GSP/BPS? Oh, I know!!!!! Because there aint no interest and there never will be!!!!!!! So....I am off to greener pastures now with the Buick Stock Appearing class which is growing and will continue to grow. My GSE car is no more, and never will be again along with a lot of others. GSE and BPS are dead unless someone else wants to step up and make something out of them. So whose it gonna be????? Perry?? Bobb?? Bruce?? Dominik?? Kitchen?? BuickNut455?? Fernando?? Cause it sure as hell isnt gonna be me!
I raced one year in the class....I put the steel bumper on and ran against Hart first round. If you remember I strapped an ass whooppping holeshot (have the video of the launch and breakage) and when the car hit high gear it shattered the ring and pinion, so yes I lost .... I went back to the plastic bumper and the class never ran again where I was at. :3gears:
:eek2: Not Married!:rant: I think I'm tired of banging my head against a wall w/ 40 year old junk! I know I could pick my car a good bit but I believe it would be at the expense of reliability and that just doesn't make sense financially to try to make big power w/ an old Block........:idea2:
Thanks for the history lesson, Jim. You must be tired after typing all of that! For the record, I raced in GSE in '05 and '06. I didn't show in '07 because of the rules change. True, I was a duck, but I got faster every year. Who knows?? There are so many reasons why this won't work, we can't list them all here. People just don't want to commit the time and $$ it takes for a heads up class. It's a CLUB. People want to come to the track, have fun, and talk to their friends. If you want to race heads up, go to ORSCA, NMCA, or your local track. Those guys mean business, and have the $$ to back it up. I know I can't hang ($$) with those guys. I'll help Bobb in Orlando, though! Geez, Jim. I was just poking some fun. No offense intended. This thing sure pulled some names out the woods, though! Now we just need Laughlin and Ollie to chime in and we would have a party. I'll see you all in the B1 lanes, or maybe Q16. Have fun. I know I am.
I hear you, Gary. I cringe every time I start mine anymore, and I'm not making the HP that some of you are. I'm getting the bank account ready for an aluminum block. Someday? Or, maybe a BBC? LSx? Who knows?? HA!
Gary, What? Rumor in BG was you got hitched! :laugh: I'm with ya on the 40 year old junk. Just one more reason these classes cant make it. Now or ever. 40 year old junk means more $$$$ which means new blocks will be around the corner which means even more $$$$ which means even less guys going GSE or BPS hunting:idea2: . Because once a guy pony's up for a new block, he will be looking for bigger numbers than GSE and BPS! IE: NONE of the new Bulldog blocks are destined for GSE! The $$$$ factor is the main reason guys dont run these classes. Look at the history of the classes. The SAME guys running at the top year after year with no new blood. They were bound to get weary after 15 years and the hobby isnt getting any cheaper. Everyone can gripe all they want but thats the way it is and it isnt going to change. Heads up = BIG :dollar: . Big :dollar: means low turnout.
From your sig: Without data, you're just another guy with an opinion. I have the data. Wanted to make sure everyone was up to speed and has the most accurate data so we dont have to rehash this again in the future for the one millionth and one time. p Plus, just in case you were thinking about stepping up and directing the class, I wanted you to be aware of what you are up against. :beer I'm just looking out for you.:beer BTW, Bobb and Fernando dont have GSE either, but you went there. o No: I will be there this year too so lets get together. Went years ago and it was always a good event.
I'm not stupid! There's no way I'd tackle that. Besides being 800 miles away, I barely have time to race my car here in Florida. Also, I have Perry beat ... 5 kids in 8 years! I'm not sure I follow you ... Fernando didn't run GSE, but it was only 2 hours from my house. How could I not go? In fact I was the ONLY V-8 Buick racecar there. You could say ... I won! :laugh: Bobb's heading for Drag Radial. I'm sure you see that class up where you are,too. That's more popular than Outlaw 10.5 here. We have two of the quickest DR cars in the country here at my track. 4.80's in the 1/8, 7.40's @ 200 in the 1/4. That's at 3300 lbs on a "stock" suspension and a drag radial. Bobb has his work cut out for him. Have fun.
Jeff You are for sure on having my work cut out for me those guy's are making big power. I don't have that kind of green, But if I can just run quick enough to get in that says alot. I have no plans that I will set the world on fire for sure. My buddy Steve just dynoed his new motor and the carb was to small it had a big pressure difference above and below the carb but it still made 2100 with only 20 pounds of boost. That thing is going to fly if he can get it down the track. my junk is like 600 less than that so we know we don't have enough but maybe we can find some 8.20's in it somewhere. I plan on being in Orlando as of now so be sure to stop in it was great last year.
Perry I like the looks of what you have maybe any replacement stock location rear arms some of the stuff you can buy now is heim jointed and I think index is the ticket. We are building a procharged 350 for my son and I would let him give it a go if there was a class I don't think the car would be competitive but he would have fun. It is a street car mostly charger is for cool factor.
Electronics are for wienies. If you ain't foot braking you ain't racing. Oh sh-t that wasn't the question was it.:laugh: Hey its your car cut it up or what ever. And if you can't cut a good light with out a crutch go for it. Bob H.
