Convertible Top Relay install??

Discussion in 'The ragtop shop' started by brmorr, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. brmorr

    brmorr Well-Known Member

    Ok, about to do the relays for my convertible top pump and had a quick question. Look at the diagram below(thanks to Tim). What is the signal feed wire to the fuse box from the switch? Is that just a ground or where does it hook up?? I know how to deal with all the rest of stuff since I already have a power line to the trunk for my amp, so all I have to do is split it off for the power to the relays in the trunk.

    Let me know if anyone has done this!!!!!
    Brian
     

    Attached Files:

  2. bigblockbuick70

    bigblockbuick70 Gold Level Contributor

    It is actually the old power feed to the switch, it is already there if you have the original harness.
     
  3. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    I haven't seen any information on this, so I'm tagging along here.
     
  4. brmorr

    brmorr Well-Known Member

    If it is the old power feed, wouldn't it still be getting full power through the switch then like it does right now?? Do I disconnect it from the power or ?? I looked on Tims restoration site and he mentions nothing about that wire, and the wiring diagram doesn't really say what it is.

    Figure all I need to do is split the power going to my amp, pull the power to the relays and then do a little wiring. Has anyone done this relay conversion so the switch doesn't get all the power anymore??

    Let me know!
    Brian

     
  5. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    You have the power through the relay. The switch in this set up would only send the signal to the relay. So the switch isnnt processing all the power.
     
  6. brmorr

    brmorr Well-Known Member

    Ok, that makes sense. So all I should have to do is the wiring in the back by the pump and install relays, and I should be good!!!

    Have you done this conversion?? I have had the stuff to do it for a while, but I am about to get all new cylinders, pump, lines and new top so I figured it was time to get all that power off the old switch!!!

    Brian

     
  7. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    i have not done it yet, but will in a few days. I have a trunk mounted battery and a power distribution block in the trunk, so i will be using that for power source.
    Take your power line to the circuit breaker, then other side of circuit breaker to the two relays.
     
  8. gstewart

    gstewart Well-Known Member

  9. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    Wow people are still going to my website???LOL Kinda forgot it was out there...

    This is the page with the description on it, there are bits everywhere so read the whole page. Feel free to add your own ideas to the mix, that was just my solution at the time.

    If you have questions you can e-mail me, but I am stupid busy so don't expect immediate replies.

    http://members.shaw.ca/timcr/elec.html

    It does work good. No issues at all.
     
  10. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Wretched Excess

    I think what Brian was asking, and it does not seem to be explained on Tim's diagrams, is where on the fuse block is the switch signal wire relocated?

    It is logical that when relays are used, power is constant to the relays from the 40 amp circuit breaker. The switch is now used to distribute the ground to signal side of the relays. So shouldn't the wire in question be attached to a good ground instead of a fuse block power feed?

    Does this better explain your question Brian?

    Jim J.
     
  11. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    On my car just plugged it into the battery connector on the fuseblock (same one for clock on stereo, etc). With my relays the power off the 40 amp circuit does not have anything to do with the signal side, completely independent circuits. So you need a small voltage to the signal side, which then operates the relay so the 40 amp side contacts connect.

    You could also plug it into the key on position, so only works with key on.

    You'll notice 85 is power in from fuseblock then across to 86 which supplies the ground to make the relay switch over which then connects the 40 amp circuits for the motor.

    I'd take more pictures to clarify, but just got home, been up 22 hours I'm beat. Maybe next day or two I can do that if it helps you guys out.

    If you have ever seen the contacts on the inside of the power top switch, how GM figured that was a good idea is beyond me, they are tiny...

    Hope that helps...
     
  12. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Wretched Excess

    OK. I see, and would recommend that in this case a fuse be installed between the fuse block and the switch. 5 amps is typically sufficient to power the signal side of a relay. Note the difference in the diagram below. In this circuit the switch is used to complete the ground to the signal side of the relays. This diagram shows power window operation through relays, but the concept is the same. Tim's wiring may indeed be more practical in that there is no need to route a seperate fused 5 amp line to the rear located relays, as power is distributed through the original harness. Also note in this diagram the fused 12v leads to terminals 85 and 87 would need to be seperate circuits. 12v 5amp to terminal 85, and 12v 40amp to terminal 87.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
  13. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    One of my big things was to NOT cut up any original harnesses, which is why it ended up like it did. The connections on the fuseblock are protected by the fuseblock (just like anything else plugged into the factory supplied connections). I can simply unplug my made up harness and reconnect all the original ones and car is back to stock very quickly.

    If a guy was to start from scratch you could make a better set up for sure, even run it off your iPhone....(however pointless that would be).

    Like I said on my webpage the diagram was what I did for my car and just a reference.
     
  14. tom_gonzalez@ve

    tom_gonzalez@ve Well-Known Member

    Just putting in my 2 cents worth here. I would never switch the ground leg on anything as is suggested in the latest diagram above. The reason is that if the wire is ever pinched and the insulation fails there is zero protection for the relay operated item. The relay would be energized and would be feeding power to whatever item it is operating. The fuse/breaker would not pop because the relay would be drawing normal power levels. A top motor could be burned out or latch mechanism damaged due to breaking the grounds, a rare but possible scenario granted, but why chance it?

    Before someone says "what about the interior lights being controlled by grounding switches?", you will see them on if the switch or wire fails.
     
  15. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    I did mine this weekend. Works great, and now (hopefully) won't have to worry about my dash switch.

    Now if I could only figure out my switch pitch timer relay set up, I'd be in great shape.
     
  16. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    Awesome. Where did you mount the relays? Curious how guys modify the original idea, that how ideas get refined/improved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  17. brmorr

    brmorr Well-Known Member

    Love to see some pics as well!!!!

    I am going to be doing mine within the next month, got to get all my parts for my car before I start working on anything!!!!

    Brian

     
  18. bigblockbuick70

    bigblockbuick70 Gold Level Contributor

    Here is pictures of my setup, I put the relays inside the brace for the rear seat, close to were the pump is located. Fabricated a simple bracket from aluminum and used existing holes, hence the strange position of the screws (seen in the first picture).

    Tim, I visit your site every now and then for both tech tips and inspiration.
    Great work you have done!
     
  19. carmantx

    carmantx Never Surrender

    Here is mine. I mounted my battery in the trunk, and have a power block there to tie in to.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TimR

    TimR Nutcase at large

    Looks good guys, one thing I would watch though is those butt splices, they do give trouble if not perfect (ask me how I know that!). Soldered and shrink wrapped is always best for cars IMHO. The relays look different/smaller too, are you buying new or?? Could update website with p/n's if you have them...
     

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