Clutch linkage conundrum!!

Discussion in 'U-shift em' started by sriley531, Jan 7, 2015.

  1. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    Ok guys, so I mocked up my clutch linkage parts to see what I had and what I didn't, and to make sure everything fit before I refinish them. These are used parts out of a GS that taulb and I parted, and I don't know the history but know it didn't start life as a 4 speed car. I have an issue and don't know enough to visual identify the problem. Here's the deal.

    With the z bar in place, the bottom tang is right next to the header, but not quite touching. The tang cannot go any further forward (toward the front of the car.
    [​IMG]

    From the bottom side, this seemed acceptable. BUT when I hooked up the rod from the top z bar tang to the pedal, this is the position of the pedal.
    [​IMG]

    Obviously I can't back the adjuster from the z bar to the clutch fork out anymore as the header tube is in the way. Could the connecting rod from the pedal to the z bar be wrong (were sbb's different perhaps?)? Any suggestions? Does somebody have one one of these rods they could measure for me to confirm? Or perhaps you guys that are more familiar can spot something amiss?

    For reference here's a top shot of the z bar.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2015
  2. Shawn,

    That looks like a small block Z bar which might be modified at the bottom to clear the headers? If you look at the factory service manual you can see where the SBB swoops towards the front on the car at the bottom. The top of a SBB bar is also different from the BB bar which of course affects the length of the rod to the pedal.

    It can be made to work but the geometry might be off which will lead to more effort on the clutch and wear on parts.

    My suggestion would be to source all BB parts.


    Also noticed that the stock dowels are in the block. I'd recommend making sure it' aligned if you haven't already.
     
  3. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    Thanks for checking in Paul. I'll investigate the z bar.

    I indicated in the bell housing and was absolutely shocked when it came in within spec. Was all ready to ordered the eccentric pins from robbmc and decided to bust out the mag base indicator first. Got lucky on that one.
     
  4. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Many moons ago I used a small block Z and rod SOMEWHAT successfully, I remember cutting the bar in half to position the pedal and fork where it appeared it needed to be , that being said after alot of cussing,throwing of tools and whatnot I drove the car hard for a summer. That said my advice is to get BB stuff its different for a reason. In my mind I was like "the z bar doesn't know what engine its attached too" but it do ha
     
  5. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Bingo!

    OPGI has a big block Z bar repro that is really good. Stacy (Dentboy) bought one and we compared it to my original and it was a dead on match
     
  6. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    Thanks for the input Jason! Guess that's the consensus then. I did dig up some pics of other BBB 4 speeds, and from what I could tell it did appear as though that top tang is far more angled forward on mine compared to the the ones in the pictures. Only problem is, now I'm wondering what else could be incorrect.

    Does anybody know what Dave Kleiner charges for the full kit? I'm exploring all options at this point...
     
  7. Clanceman427

    Clanceman427 Hardtops need not apply

    Off topic and maybe it's just mock up stage and/or the camera angle but msn that fuel line looks super close to the header and z bar. Will you be rerouting that fuel line inside the front of the frame?
     
  8. dentboy

    dentboy stacy kelevra

    Here's a silly thought. It def looks like a SBB z bar but did anybody take this z bar apart?? It almost looks like its upside down??? I tried using SBB z bar and pedal was good position but botton hit the header. Too much stuff looks off. Kleiner will only sell stuff in a kit. You buy everything or nothing from him. That's how he operates. Opgi did a excellent job reproducing z bar. And like Paul said replace that ball now. good luck.
     
  9. CJay

    CJay Supercar owner Staff Member

    Stacy and Kleiner are tight. Mention Stacy's name when you call. Be prepared to hear a click and a dial tone right after:laugh:
     
  10. BuickGSrules

    BuickGSrules Gold Level Contributor

    It is a small block Z-bar. When converting my 350 to BBB I used the smallblock Z-bar. Cut the arm close to the axle, move it towards the block just enough to clear the headers and reweld it.
    On my car it gave a much better angle for the clutch fork pin and works perfect.
     
  11. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    Helpful as always gents, thank you all. I have a well equipped shop, and enough fab skills to easily make it work, but Im not sure i really want to. I think it'd just bug me to the point I'd have to change it out later. That said, this has me aggravated just enough that if I have to buy all new stuff, I'm exploring the possibility of saying screw it and going hydraulic (most likely slave cylnder, not wanting to have to pull it back apart to swap out my brand new throw out bearing). But first Im going to get ahold of Dave and see what the deal is on his kit before I get too ahead of myself.

    J-Cook,

    I'll be sure to mention Stacey's name.....NOT!! :bla:

    Kevin,

    I always get a kick out of the keen eyes on this board. The attention to detail by members here is always extraordinary! BUT.... that actually is not a fuel line. It is the brake line running from the prop valve to the rear. It also isn't attached the frame yet, so it will be pulled away from the headers a bit more. My fuel line is -8AN push lock hose (that has yet to be run, my new gas tank/robbmc pick up will be in tomorrow actually).

    Hey Jan and Hugger,

    I've tinkered with the idea, I may experiment just to see how it turns out (what do I have to lose, right?), but not sure I want to go that route permanently. There are some items on the car that are only to get me ready in time to take it to BPG this year (i.e. the transmission itself will be swapped with an Autogear unit next winter as this one wouldnt survive sticky tires on a sticky track behind this engine), so maybe 'll cut and weld just to see for grinnies.

    Again, THANK YOU gentlemen for all your input, I greatly appreciate it.
     

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