Buick Specific Engine Rebuilders Nationwide ?

There's not much difference between a Chevy and a Buick when it comes to machining and assembling the engine.

If it's something that would screw-up a Buick, it'd screw-up a Chevy, too.
If it's something that would screw up a Chevy, it'd screw-up a Buick, too.

The problems aren't with the "difference" between Chevy and Buick, the problems are with carelessness, sloppyness, inattention.

 

Anyone know of builders in Alaska, the west coast or mountain west?

 

Yep!
Even if the shop does mostly Chevy or Ford, as long as they have a “TRUE” machinist/s that follow either factory specs or the customers requested specs, you’ll be ok.
Some shops have guys that just like the idea of working on engines but “don’t get it”

 

Mostly true..

But the biggest area of concern with someone not familiar with BBB is the align hone of the main bearing housings.. The larger than "normal" housing size for the mains requires a different honing mandrel than they are using for the Chevies and Fords.. A lot of shops don't have this rather expensive piece of equipment, which can lead to them doing a poor job, or skipping the align hone all together. This is the number one cause of rod failure in a BBB, especially one that was just rebuilt. One housing gets out of round (number 4 is usually the worst in this block, when we check them on used blocks, and that leads to bleeding off the oil pressure locally to just those two rods. You won't necessarily see this on the overall oil pressure, but it will dry those rods up, and burn them out.. number 7 especially.

I have fixed probably half a dozen "new motors" sent to me with burned up bearings.. In each case, the repair process was disassemble and clean, deglaze hone, Align hone the mains, turn crank and repair/replace affected rods- reassemble and test. It's a 100% success rate deal.

The other issue is that this block really needs to be honed with torque plates installed... and a shop that does not do a lot of Buicks most likely does not have one.. Whereas my guys have 4, and I have another one in the shop here.. This block, with it's thinwall cylinders, really needs the plate.. we leave .005 to hone to get to the finished bore size, so we will be sure to be able to straighten it out.

So you either have to supply them one, or end up with an engine that is not all it could be..

JW

 

^^^^^^Good info there Jim.^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Not what I expected to hear. You're saying that the big difference is that shops don't have appropriate tooling. Seems very logical. I had to supply torque plates to the shop I use. He has the mandrel, but the only torque plates he had were for SBC. I supplied Chevy big-block, Pontiac, Olds, Buick big-block, Caddy "big block", and a big-bore LS-series.

What I expected to hear was the difference between the Chevy and the Buick oiling system; drilling passages oversize, front cam bearing, and the need for all the gasketed joints (and castings) to be air-tight--along with bearing-clearance warnings. God bless submerged oil pumps.

 

That's an overblown concern.. Anything "different" and folks run for the hills. Are their mods and techniques/parts we use to make it better? Sure, but that's the nature of hot rodding now isn't it? And there were hundreds of thousands of BBB equipped Buicks that went 100-200K miles, with no oil related issues.

An actually more valid concern is your engine designer.. and if this is someone, machinist or not, that is not familiar with available components for the BBB, and how they relate to engine performance and operation, then your unlikely to get an engine that is everything it can be... at best.. at worst, your starting over again.

Here is an easy example..

Say you want to build a 430 Buick... on a budget... looking for 400 Hp and good torque.. this means it has to have compression.. on a pump gas combo at least 9.5-1.

But here's the problem.. no stocking piston exists, either cast or forged, that will produce that compression ratio. In fact, most pistons for that version of the
BBB are designed from the original 1967 blueprints, which called out the production deck height at 10.540. This was raised to 10.570 after the publication of the SAE new engine introduction book. But because manufacturers use the specs that originate in that SAE book, they are all building pistons with the wrong compression distance.. for the last 50 or so years. All 430 aftermarket pistons that I am aware of, have a compression distance that will put them .080 or more in the hole on an uncut or just cleaned up block. When I tell folks who call me on the phone, what I just laid out above, I get the same response.. "you mean there is no $350 set of cast pistons I can buy for this engine?".. That's correct, you need a custom piston that will be nearly triple that price.

So why is it important to use a Buick Engine Builder? It very well may not be his ability to make round holes and flat surfaces.. it might be his lack of knowledge about what he is putting in those holes. I know all this stuff sitting here in my bath robe, at 11:30 at night... because of experience.. most guys in the industry won't bother to check the CD of the pistons they just ordered out of a catalog, because the world is full of Chevy and Ford and Mopar parts that just drop in and everything is hunky-dorry.. not so with nitch motors like the Buicks.

Now, before the internet, this was a huge problem... these days, spending a little time doing research, and having/acquiring a basic understanding of the engine your trying to build, can save you a huge headache down the road. But the problem continues, I have 3 or 4 engines in my shop that are there, and not in some guy's car, because they have the wrong parts in them.. Brand new rebuilds with a screaming 7.8-1 compression ratio..

This is not unique to Buicks by the way.. To some extent, it is true of all engines, your going to get the best result when you go to someone that specializes in that engine.

Especially when you stray away from the bellybutton engines.

That said, it is entirely possible to open your phone, pick out the nearest machine shop on your yelp listing, and have them build you a top notch Buick 455... But that takes a true craftsman, who is willing to take the time to explore all the aspects of each unique engine out there, and lay out a nice combo on paper, and then build it.. But those individuals were always rare.. and nearly impossible to find these days.. especially when their shop is flooded with money making bellybuttons..


JW

 

Perhaps I'm spoiled. My go-to machinist was a high-school buddy, we went to Trade School together.

He does everything from valve jobs on locomotive cylinder heads, to heavy-equipment Diesel rebuilds, Automotive gasoline and diesel work including the warranty repairs for the local new-car dealerships that their own guys can't/won't get right, boring/honing snowmobile and motorcycle engines. Crank grinding, even did a "Garden-tractor Pulling-contest engine; some Briggs 'n' Pitiful 18 horse engine that was pushing 40+ horsepower when they were done (20 years ago.) He loves the high-performance stuff, but it's the diesels and the dealership work that pay the bills. His work with a local circle-track hero put Pontiac 400s and 455s in the Season Points Winner or Runner-Up for nearly a decade.

Almost all of his equipment was purchased used from machine shops that were closing the doors. The building was his design, though.

On the one hand, he's Jack-of-All machining, master of none...sort of. He puts in the effort and enthusiasm to do a pretty spectacular job on everything that comes in the door. One guy, one part-time helper. He's getting old enough to be thinking about training the successor who--hopefully--will buy the business from him.

Except no-one wants to be the successor.

Pity.

 

i run a blower on the 350. it gets no reprieve on rpm or anything. my machine shop has been doing my engines for over 15 yrs.
he gets nervous with because of the off the wall changes. as i have told him, 'has it blown up yet?' no, so don't worry.
back in the early 70's we had dale hall and norm case, precision automotive, do our engines. no breakage there either.
if you don't know who dale or norm was, check with don prudrome, he knew them.

 

Thank you all, this is some great information. I suppose I need to organize a list of requirements of the rebuild and see if ny local machinists/engine builders can do it. I'm looking at making my Electra a reliable a street car that can do some burnouts (Heads, Cam & Intake)

Aside from the standard rebuild and hot tank what should I make sure to ask that they do? Pretend I'm a moron and explain it like we're in tech school haha

 

From the threads from Larry and aforementioned info;

The "recipe" for a 1970 Buick 455 out of an Electra to be a daily would loo like;

Sonic Check
Oil mods
Align Hone
Hot tank
Standard rebuild
--with TA 212 Hydraulic Cam, Stage 1 SE Aluminum Cylinder Heads, SP1 intake, Holley Sniper, Holley Hyperspark ignition and Hi perf oil pump/timing chain cover

That seem about right?

 

I havent found one on the west coast, TA Performance is the closest reputable builder that I know of to me. (vancouver wa. ) Shipping all my parts BACK to them is going to be spendy LOL

 

Just let me put my 2 cents here as Larry probably does not know. Richard from McBetts has been sick for a long time now. Was ,is in the hospital for over 2 months with cancer,so it does not look good .I sent a friend there to rebuilt his engine, Richard was not there and he is not too happy with the people that are there now.And I do not know them. Bruno.

 

I second Schurkey. If you can find a local machinist willing to work with and listen to you, then there's no real need to worry unless you want major mods done or you have a very rare engine. Larry is right about the lack of knowledge most have when it comes to both Buick and Oldsmobile engines. The only thing I really wanted was for someone to measure everything. Everything was still well within stock specs and my engine has been "rebuilt" at least three times I know about. The only thing extra I had done was to ask that my valves be backcut because there was no way I was risking putting hardened seats in heads. The machine shop I used mostly works on large diesel engines and only occasionally does car motors. Hands down, my largest expense was having him retap my exhaust port bolt holes on my heads with heli-coils (do not use grade 8 bolts on your manifolds like I had). I didn't need to replace much and I probably should have bought new lifters, but my cam was still good since it and the lifters were replaced during the last rebuild I did over 30 years ago. If you get a good radiator and you don't plan on racing the car, you should be okay just leaving things stock. I didn't do the oiling mods as I never plan to over rev the engine. I have seen a few Buicks that had thrown a rod due to their front bearings failing. In fact I stopped running my engine when it developed a knock. The oiling mods may help if you aren't aware of the limitations of the original design. You absolutely need both the block and heads to be magnafluxed (unless you will replace the heads). Hot tank is a given. I had the shop do a rough hone and then I re-honed it myself with 2 grades of flex hones. The way I understand it, if they don't have the correct torque plate for their machine, even if you bring them the right one to use, you still run the risk of them jacking up your cylinder walls. Then you will need to do an overbore and you will absolutely need not only the correct torque plate but you also need to ensure they are using it correctly on their lathe. If you are in spec and do not need (or want) an over bore then a rough hone followed by a good finishing will be okay. Anything less than a prefect cross hatch will cause your rings to not seat correctly and your engine will likely smoke. You should also consider a new or rebuilt harmonic balancer.

 

Have been lurking this thread and got me a bit worried on my current 455 in the machine shop. I’ve done all I can to communicate with my machinist to properly build up my block and now I am at the stage where we are going to bore .030 the cylinders out and I asked him about torque plates which he does not have for a buick. I told him to wait while I find out to bring in, does anyone here know where to buy a correct one? Google came up multiple answers so just want to poke your guys brains to figure out if its ok to get any one cast or aluminum. Or does TA still rent them out?

https://honingplates.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=20 Is what I am looking at

Thanks for reading.

 

TA Performance rents or sells them.

 

That's the torque plate I bought, direct from BHJ. Maybe BHJ doesn't sell direct any more.

I got mine a thousand years ago, just over $400 if I remember right.

If you're boring an iron block, you'd prefer an iron torque plate. Steel next, and aluminum last. And of course, you'll need a head gasket like will be used for the engine assembly. Bolts the proper length to achieve the same thread engagement in the block.

If there's no torque plate available, torque some bolts against parallel-ground washers (head-bolt washers) so that the thread engagement into the block is the same as the headbolts would be, considering the depth of the holes in the head, and your choice of head gasket thickness. NOT as good as a real torque plate but better than nothing.

 

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_content/products/honingplates/hp_intro.php

Looks like honingplates.com is direct from BHJ.

I'm not disagreeing with you or trying to be disagreeable, but I wonder if it would be better to match the torque plate material with the head material since the goal of the plates is to replicate the cylinder bore distortion that happens when the heads are torqued down.

I wish I had 30 blocks, a set each of CI & AL torque plates, a Bridgeport, and a CMM haha