Went to freshen up the bearings in BQUICK and the first main cap I pulled came with a big chunk of web! All the way from the oil hole to where the bolt threads. Eeeek! No wonder I was leaking some oil pressure. Glad it didn't let go on the last pass at Etown at 6300 thru the traps! 600 runs and 600 passes was all the block has in it. It was an NOS SS block with no VIN. (std bore) Oh well, I think I'll put some cement in the next block along with main studs. Bruce BQUICK
Load 'em on your hard drive. Then post a reply to this and at the bottom you'll see a box that says "Browse". Click that and search the drop down box for the folder/file where the picture is, click on it and click open. That will put it back in the reply box next to "Browse". Click submit and you're done.
Re: speaking of new block............ Release date on the block will be spring of 2003. I hopefully will be able to start posting some pics after the first week of december. Jim Burek
Bruce, Sorry to hear about the block, but on the other hand...MAN THATS COOL!!! not too many people can say they blew the webs out of thier block, tats some mighty fine power power you are makin!
Join the depressed club Bruce. When I had my engine freshened up this past Spring at Stage 1 Auto, Rob took it apart and everything looked fine. He removed the block girdle and along with it came a chunk of the main webbing of #2 cracked from the stud allthe away into the bearing surface. Block was filled and everything good was done. Just too much stress I guess. But and a big but the girdle most likely held it in place. Good luck on the next one Bruce. We can use you at Norwalk next Spring to race the western guys.:Brow: Rick
Re: Re: Blew my mains out Wow guys, This is what I mean by saying this new block is absolutely neccessary. While the bandaids help out, they are just that, bandaids. Just food for thought. Jim Burek www.paeenterprises.com
Bruce, just as an add -on from my post; my block was a 1976 casting, one of the Buick short blocks sold a few yeasr back. I had borrowed about 5 other blocks had all sonic tested and picked the best one. This block had everything done correct and checked and re-checked. Had about trouble free 108 passes on the engine all power running 3200 pound car in the 9.80's (never had it dynoed). Took the engine down just to get re-ringed and re-bearing'ed. Turned into a major brand new engine once the broken piece came out (you know how that goes). So I guess it can happen to any block out there. The're just too darn flymsy. Anyway got another and the same was done again with the new one. (the one currently in car. Rick
Rick This was a 70 block. I have a new NOS crate motor that I bought in the 80s I wonder if that block would be better. I have a 72 used also. I kinda hate breaking up the crate motor ....might be worth some change some day.... I'm going to try to use my std pistons by just honing a used block. Machine shops would rather bore and true everything up. This motor was external balance so that may have been hard on it. You have a trans brake which must shock it pretty hard. Bruce
Starting line controls and your engine Guys, Just thought I would mention something we did a while ago. I think Rick is using a 2 step, not sure what your doing Bruce. But a while back, we... Quit using a 2 step rev limiter... Why you say? Simply put, as the 2 step pulls ignition pulses out of the firing order, it induces a heavy vibration in the motor. It does not pull the spark away from the plugs, in any order, or with any regard to the firing order, it does it randomly. Those who have sat on the starting line, against a trans or foot brake, know exactly what I am talking about. We broke a stock rod in a backup motor, at an NHRA Super Street event about 3 or 4 years ago. And with the pro tree, your forced to enguage the trans brake (which also activates the two step) and "mash" the gas as soon as you stage. In that particular run, the starter took a little longer than normal to activate the tree, and the motor sat on the 2 step at 4500 rpm for about 5 seconds. It broke a connecting rod right off the starting line, and we felt, upon dissasembly and inspection, that the engine running that long, at that high an rpm, erratically with the two step enguaged, was at very least a factor in that failure, if not the cause. Too bad, that was one of my favorite race motors, and of course, the broken rod, exiting thru the side of the cast iron engine block, made the whole deal scrap. After that, we went to a air throttle control. This is a simple cylinder, in the throttle linkage, that when pressurized with C02, maintains it's length. When the C02 is released (by applying power to it's electrical solenoid, via a delay box or a simple button), it lengthens the throttle linkage to a pre-set (by you) carb opening, thus allowing you to "mash the trottle", come up against the converter, and then when the electrical solenioid is de-energized, and then the cylinder shortens the linkage, pulls the carb all the way open.. and off you go. And, using the accel pumps in the carb to launch, we reaped a side benefit of quicker 60' times. If you heard our old Regal on the starting line, you may have noticed it didn't go POP POP POP like a 2 step car will do. It just came up smoothly to a pre-set rpm, and left when the trans brake let go. I strongly advise you guys to deep-six the two steps, and go to this type of system. They are available for both rod and cable style throttle linkages. We use stuff from ACD, and like it very much. They make complete kits for this, with the air bottle, lines, controls, and the rest of the goodies. Gonna set you back a couple hundred... but cheaper than new motors. Your bottom end will thank you, and reward you with quicker sixty foot and 1/4 mile et's.. :grin: JW
Jim, Great point with the two step. With the old motor I used it mostly. One time though on a test and tune night I ran 6 passes (Doug Hecker was w/me then, 3 with it and 3 on the convertor. I really saw no difference to shout about. I was told then that the two step is hard on the bottom end where as leaving on the convertor is hard on the trans. Hmmm a TH400 is a lot cheaper to freshen up. Hence the two step is still wired in but the chip is out. I haven't been using it on the new engine. My 60 foots were also about the same. Track condition had a greater effect than with or without the two step. This may not be the case with everyone, but it was with my set-up. Forgot all about that point Jim (well that happens after 40). Using the ol'e noggin eh:laugh: Rick
Rick, Ya' kinda missed what is going on... I see my explaination is somewhat lacking... this is a problem I run into often, when I know exactly what I am talking about, but explaining it to someone else, who has never worked with or seen the system, is another matter all together.. Let me give it another shot.. With the air throttle control, you don't leave hard against the converter... Because... The carb is not fully open... once it's fully open, you have lost all the pump shot, whether your using the converter or a two step to hold the rpm down. Remember, the throttle linkage lengthens, so you only open the carb to maybe 1/4 throttle with your foot flat on the floor, until the brake lets go, and the air cylinder snaps the carb wide open, thus allowing all the tuning and extra performance available from the carbs accelerator pump systems. I agree that with the two step, or just with the carb wide open against the converter (very hard on the converter by the way) that the car will leave the same, because in both scenarios, you have exhausted all the pump shot from the carb. The Key is that the carb snaps open and activates all the accel pumps when you need them most... It works exactly like holding the car with the brakes, and just nailing it when you see the green, except you react with just your finger, not your feet. It gets you away from killing the converter, or the motor, but yet regulates the rpm, at a level you pre-set, by adjusting the physical length of the throttle linkage, with the system "activated". And allows the proper use of the brake and also a delay box if your so inclined. But either way, the bottom line here is to get rid of that two step.. And yes, you have to tune the car to how it leaves... we did have to re-adjust the car's instant center, to provide more bite to handle the extra power. JW
MSD's defence Hey guys I read the posting and reported back to the Oldsmobile crowd what I saw here. As usual I got my fair share of naysayers and skeptics so one of the guys emailed MSD tech for their view on the problem of parts failing due to the TwoStep: This is the response I got back from the MSD tech, after he read Jetstar I's post (in its entirety)..... Sir, Thank you for forwarding this to me so I am able to address the questions and hopefully clear up some misconceptions on how the limiter works. Once the motor has exceeded the set RPM that is recognized by the resistance of the chip the limiter circuit will actually go ahead and clamp the signal eliminating the spark to a cylinder. The limiter circuit is based off of time and by doing this will help prevent plug fouling by dropping the same cylinder/cylinders time after time. It is random in respect to the initial limiting(only because we do not know what cylinder will be firing when the limit is reached only after the limit has been exceeded) but not after the sequence has started. By doing this the limiter function is much smoother and the cylinder temperatures are going to stay more consistent so it will not affect ET etc. The limiter by no means is going to be hard on the motor as listed below, if this was the case we being an industry leader in ignition components would not manufacture something that would be detrimental to the application it was being installed on(the limiter is designed to protect the motor not damage it). We offer limiters for every application from Top Fuel down to a stock industrial motors(almost every pro stock out there is using an MSD limiter to hold the motor for staging). Unfortunately the rod going away on this pass was not caused buy the limiter and I would have to say would have failed regardless on that pass. We have actually began manufacturing a limiter for the Drag boat applications that utilizes the limiter to prevent propeller cavitations by not allowing the motor to accelerate faster then a set amount using the rev-limiter to slow the motor down on initial throttle hit. These have been used for the past year and half give or take on application ranging from normally aspirated applications to NOS and supercharged. If the limiter was detrimental to the motor, this style of limiter would not obviously work. Again the limiters are used in all facets both high and low limit(staging) with out any harm to the engine. Like I had mentioned above I have to say the rod failure was going to happen and unfortunately the limiter is being blamed. I hope this clears up some of the issues and if you have any other questions or concerns you or any of the your club members can e-mail me directly at msdignition@msdignition.com . Thank You, Joe MSD tech What do you guys think? Ante
Wonder if the tech has ever sat in a car, with solid motor mounts, on the starting line, with the car against a chip... smooth???? um.. no.. For the record, the motor that broke the rod was well used, but it just seems awful coincidental that it broke on that pass, right on the starting line.. considering the story. So you can understand how we figure 2+2=4... But in any event, damaging the motor or not is not the main issue, the main issue is that there is a much better way to control starting line rpm, and use that process to make the car go faster. JW
