I want to convert the front drum brakes on my '68 Wildcat to discs. Can I use the knuckles and calipers from a 74 LeSabre or 75 Olds Delta 88? (I've got these). If not, what will fit? Thanks for your info.
David, In a word: NO. At least I'm almost certain neither will fit. Discs were an option starting in '67. '65 -'70 Electra and Wildcat, and '66-'70 Riviera use the same spindle. Spindles from Chevy, Olds, Pontiac, Cadillac won't fit your ball joints or tie rods. That leaves '67-'70 BUICK big car as your only source for swaps. '67-'69 used a two piston caliper, which I understand to be very trouble prone due to leaks, etc. Rotors and calipers are impossible to find, nobody makes them. '70 uses a single piston caliper which I'm told is better, but once again rotors are hen's teeth. I've heard rumors that Kanters is planning to reproduce the rotors for something like $400 each but they are not available yet. These complete systems would bolt right up to your spindles; get everything and I mean EVERY THING from the spindle to the pedal from the donor if you still choose this route. RRS in Australia makes a conversion kit that will fit your car. It uses 12 inch rotors and looks to be a very well engineered set up. Its kinda pricey though, almost $1600 for the complete kit shipped, without booster, master cylinder, or proportioning valve. It uses the calipers from the new GTO and modified rotors. You'll need to buy replacement rotors from them when they wear, you can get replacement calipers and pads from any GM dealer. WEBSITE: RRS I am using conversion brackets from Scarebird on my '65 Wildcat. They only sell the brackets, not a complete kit, for about $100. They offer them on Ebay all the time. It uses '69-'77 GM A-body (Skylark, Chevelle, etc.) calipers and '77-'79 Cadillac Seville 11 inch rear rotors. You have to machine the o.d. of your hubs down after removing them from your drums. Everything at the wheel fits great. My car is still apart, so I can't comment on braking ability with these smaller rotors yet, but cost was about $1250 cheaper than RRS, and replacement parts are carried at any local parts store. WEBSITE: SCAREBIRD Hope this helps.
Try www.scarebird.com he will have a conversion bracket that uses original spindles. You might have to upgrade your master, booster and preportioning valve.
As far as I'm concerned 11" rotors & a-body calipers are a waste of time. Why go through all the trouble for less braking efficency. These brakes were deigned for cars that weigh about 1000 pds. less. How do you expect them to be up to the task if you were ever in the situation you "NEEDED" them. Hellava time to find out they aren't up to the task. To me it's like putting Mustang II front suspension in your 4000+ pd. car. It was designed for 3000 or less. You would be better off keeping the drums you have & rebuilding the brake system with quality components. The brake shoes that are made today are mostly asbestoes free & eat up drums & are crappy at stopping. Best is to send out your old cores to be relined by a competent brake specialist. The 12" Aluminum Buick brakes were the best in the industry for many years. The drums got used up by all the hot rodders & roundy round cars. As stated, " they were the next best thing to disc brakes". The stuff produced in Australia are good components, 12" rotors, fairly large twin piston calipers, etc. A pretty complete kit. How much would you save if you bought a kit based on price alone when you "NEEDED" them & they weren't up to the job at hand??? It costs big bucks today to find good quality replacement sheet metal if something were to happen. Know what I mean??? The front suspension remained basically the same from '61-'70 on full size cars & Rivs, so the kit will fit all with minor modifications I'm sure. I have a '70 set-up on my '64 Riv. with my front shoes & brake drums in the rear. Stopping is fantastic. As far as the Buick discs from '67-'69 they were all 4 piston calipers, not 2. Their stopping power is far superior than the single piston sliding design. This is what they used on Corvettes from '65- I think to around '82 or so. So the 4 piston must be good. Problem is with moisture in the caliper bores. The sealing surface of the caliper seal is the caliper cast iron which gets pitted over time from moisture. They reline 'vette calipers with stainless & brass. This could also be done with Buick's. Hard part is finding good pads & rotors or a car that has this set-up. Not too many were made. Tony Gentilacor?? (spelling?? sorry Tony) came up with the kit because of the pad & rotor situation. Just my thoughts & observations.
I have been researching the Scarebird brackets to use on my 62 Electra, and I don't think he uses the Eldorado rear rotors for the front of our large cars. He does use those rotors for his rear disc brake conversions. For the front of our cars I believe he uses 71-76 B-body rotors and calipers. I am trying to find again where I saw that so I can refresh my memory. For me, the drums work OK but they suffer from fading more than similar sized cars with disc front brakes did for me. Brian
I think he uses caddy rear rotors not b body rotors......I have a pair of those brackets and I don't think I'll be using them........I never thought of what Tom said about Rivs being 1000 lbs. too heavy for single piston calipers and smaller rotors. Also, you need to find a way to add a delay valve to the fronts or else your car will nose dive each time you apply the brakes. On the stock disc brake setup, GM installed one of those valves at the master cyl. just for that purpose. It won't let fluid through until over 100 lbs. of pressure to the front brakes is built up first. In the later years it was part of the distribution valve, I think that's why they are called proportioning valves in the later years. :bglasses:
Reply from scarebird Mark from scarebird has this reply It has been pointed out tho me that there is some confusion regarding our disc brake conversion pieces, I hope to sort it out. We offer three different pieces, as the are three different spindles for the 61-70 Buicks. 1961-64 All full size Buicks 1965 Rivieras 1965-70 Full size except 1965 Riviera The first two sets use the 71-76 GM full size disc, a 12" by 1.25" rotor along with calipers from the same era. These are also 71-86(?) half ton GM truck rotors. The calipers have 2-15/16" pistons, so plenty of squeeze. The third set uses the 77-79 Seville rear rotor,a 11" unit that is 1" thick, along with 69-72 Skylark calipers- same bore as the heavier 71-76 units. Unless you are doing some autocrosswith a trunk full of anvils, these will work fine. I have looked at the gentleman from Australia's website and concur; they make a nice piece. For two grand I can too... Our marketing strategy is as mentioned- make affordable pieces that use the most common rotors and calipers possible- keeping the cost down [/color] Thanks www.scarebird.com PO Box 6266 Lynnwood, WA 98036
I had never thought of autocrossing with a trunk full of anvils...I guess that is one way to improve weight distribution :grin: Brian
I talked with the guy from "scarebird" a few months back. He seemed like a nice enough guy. Answered several questions for me. I'm considering doing something on my '68 Riv when it gets back on the road. However, the one thing he wasn't able to give me, was a referral from anyone who had done this conversion on their full size buick. Has anyone out there done this conversion? I don't want to be the first to try this, and find out it doesn't work as well as it's supposed to. The 11" rotors concerened me also. He tried reassuring me that this was plenty of brake, but I just wasn't convinced. I sure wish we could get the big 12" truck rotors for the '65- '70 full size buicks. That sure does seem like a lot of car to be stopping with 11" rotors. What was the dia for the stock discs that came on these cars? The RRS conversion seems like it would be the hot setup, but two grand is awfully expensive. Brett
Contact www.tsmmfg.com and see what Skip says. I found a 69 Catalina that had disc brakes and it was the single piston design. I do occassionaly find the 65-70 cars(b-body) with disc brakes. Local yard has a 70 Caddy. I did not check for disc brakes. I would assume most Caddy models would have them. Let me know if those will work. Email me directly at GStage1@buickperformance.com I will be at the yard on Sat. Also, same yard has a 71 Caddy Fleetwood. I guess they use a different design.
Clearance issue See this thread on scarebird bracket.http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?p=527718#post527718..
Local yard just got in a 72 Catalina, 4dr, granny car, 68k original. Car is super clean and has disc brakes. If anyone needs them, let me know at GStage1@buickperformance.com
Well, just happened upon a 70 Olds 88 w/factory disc brakes today. This is the exact same set-up as the one on the 69 Catalina I found 4 weeks ago. This is everything to bolt on including the hold-off valve. See pic. I am going to list this set-up on Ebay.
It surprises me that Olds and Pontiac parts would fit in a Buick....in either case I doubt if those parts would fit in a '66-'70 Riv (aside from the hold off valve)......I don't know about the other full sized models though. :bglasses:
