61 Nailhead AC install

Discussion in 'Classic Buicks' started by Rockable, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    I'm posting this here because I don't think it will get attention in the other forums and this does pertain to the engine.

    My buddy is looking at buying a 61 LeSabre with stock 364 nailhead. I have read the blogs at nailheadbuick.com and understand that installing AC on one of these cars is challenging for several reasons. One, nobody makes brackets. Two, there are no 3 groove pulleys available so you have to change timing cover to '62-66 to be able to get pulleys. (You still don't have a bracket.)

    He also mentions a 2 belt setup where people build a compressor bracket to occupy the former alternator space and then build a bracket off the compressor bracket to mount the alternator and drive it with the second groove on the Sanden compressor. At least this is the way I understood it.

    Has anyone here done that? If so, can you share some pictures.

    This is a really nice original car but summers are brutal here in NC without AC. He would like to keep the original engine, if we can figure out how to do this.

    Thanks!
     
  2. jaye

    jaye Well-Known Member

    Isn’t there a company that makes electric a/c compressors?
     
  3. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    If you do the math, electric AC compressors won't deliver the cooling capacity we need in our cars during the summer. For example, let's assume you need 2 tons of cooling. (There is a lot of heat and a lot of glass in a big Buick.) That will take 2000 watts to deliver it or about 2.6 HP. With a 12 volt system, that is 166 amps! And that may not be enough. Electric AC is ok on EV's because they operate at 360-400 volts. That would only draw about 5 amps.

    Electric power steering might be an option.
     
  4. 322bnh

    322bnh Well-Known Member

    The factory AC brackets can easily be modified to accommodate a Sanden style compressor.
     
  5. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Was there a factory AC bracket for the 61 364? My understanding is there were no 3 groove pulleys for the 61 364.
     
  6. 322bnh

    322bnh Well-Known Member

    The 364 started in 1957. I don't know about 3 groove pulleys and whether they are even necessary.
     
  7. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    My '61 LeSabre is an A/C delete car from the factory. Has all the A/C stuff, but no A/C. Has bolt-in plates in the firewall instead of a solid firewall. Has 42 amp gen. with a cooling hose running from the front of the rad. support to the rear of the gen. A vent line return to the fuel tank, etc.
    I'll have to look at the pulleys next time I'm at the garage.
    I do believe you can use 401/425 pulleys on the crank. Non A/C cars spin the water pump at .9 engine speed, with larger pulleys, with a 3 blade impeller in the water pump. Whereas A/C cars spin the pump at 1.1 times engine speed which are diff. diameter, smaller pulleys, with a 5 blade impeller in the water pump.
    Then you will need a rad. to handle the extra cooling capacity needed with a H/D fan clutch & a shroud.
    I believe you can use a 401/425 bracket, with small mods, that mounts the A/C compressor to the top of the bracket with an alt. mount built in that you may what to upgrade to along with the PROPER two head bolts. A Sanden compressor bolts to the bracket at the front bolt holes. Will have to make a brace to support the rear of the compressor.
    I think I covered most, if not all, that may be nec.

    Tom T.
     
    322bnh and Rockable like this.
  8. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Well, I ended up selling my 57 Chevy to my buddy and I bought this car. After some research, we found this setup that is supposed to work with the 2 groove pulley. I think this may be reversed and the compressor and alternator mount on the PS. I guess you could build brackets off the fuel pump mounting holes. I prefer an electric fuel pump anyway with today's fuels.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/1831220297...MhKWxqCQBW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
     
  9. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    That's a funky, looks totally back yard/hacked set-up AND WAY OVER PRICED FOR WHAT'S included.
    I believe you will be much more satisfied with an original style A/C/Alt. bracket.
    Will look more like factory & NOT A HACK JOB!!!
    Just my thoughts on the subject at hand.

    Tom T.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2022
    Mark Demko likes this.
  10. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Tom, tell me more. My understanding is there is no other option out there. I agree that is is fugly. Help me! I AM going to have AC!
     
  11. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Would be nice to respond to a person.

    Anyway, the deck height on a 401/425 is slightly higher than the 364. An A/C/Alt. bracket from a 401/425 I am almost certain can be adapted to the 364.
    There are two things that will change on the bracket. The two water manifold bolts will sit inboard of your water manifold bolts.
    The 2nd. is the bolt that goes into the water pump will also sit inboard. I believe all that needs to be done is re-drill the holes in the proper spot.
    The stroke of the 364 is 3.400" whereas the 401/425 is 3.640" approx. a 1/4" diff. Now cut that in half & you end up with 1/8th. inch.
    I don't think that the diff. is unsurmountable.
    Now you need the proper 1/4" longer head bolt. A 1/4" longer water pump bolt, grade 5, can be purchased at any decent hardware store.
    The positive is that you can now bolt-in an alternator. Use a variety of the one wire units available & that side is covered. I would use one of the 12SI one wire alternators & a simple wiring job. The bolts that hold the alt. are also hardware store bolts.
    Next are the pulleys. A/C 3 groove lower & 3 groove water pump. Pulleys from '57-'66 will work in this application. More than likely found on the '63-'66 Rivs. & full size Buick cars.
    The Sanden compressor will bolt to the brackets that are punched out on the A/C/Alt. bracket. Will need to make a support bracket for the rear of the compressor & an accessory head bolt that has the stud sticking out the top so the bracket can be bolted to something solid & held with a nut.
    Do a search for some pics of under hood shots to visualize what I'm taking about.

    Tom T.
     
  12. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Ok, Tom. Thanks. I will check it out. Finding the 3 groove pulleys for the water pump and crankshaft may be the hardest part. Do you have those?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2022
  13. 322bnh

    322bnh Well-Known Member

    You may not need a 3-grove pulley system since the Sanden requires less effort to turn than the original A-5 or A-6 compressors.
     
  14. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    More than likely he will as the alt. doesn't have much belt wrap on it. Since he will be using a 100 amp alt. it will need the belt wrap. Only about a quarter of the pulley is used if that.
    Again, look at various underhood pics & you'll see what I'm talking about.
    Sorry, but I don't think I have pulleys. I'll have to look in my parts in a few days.

    Tom T.
     
    Ray Morrison likes this.
  15. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    I found out that I already have an updated timing cover and short water pump. Also, a guy on the HAMB wants my 2 groove pulleys and is going to swap me his 3 groove pulleys! I bought a bracket off eBay. Now, if I could just find a set of the OE AC vents for a 61, I would have it mostly figured out.

    Thanks, Tom!
     
  16. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Ok. I have discovered that my engine already had the short water pump conversion done and I have located a bracket and ordered pulleys from the Martins. I am currently looking for 61 Buick AC vents and a heavy duty radiator. I have searched a lot and come up with nothing.

    Who makes aluminum radiators for these cars? Will 63-65 Riviera radiators fit?

    Thanks for everyone's help?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022
  17. Dan Hach

    Dan Hach Well-Known Member

    Why do you want an aluminum radiator? You can get the existing one re-cored for less money and not fiddle with new mounts.
     
  18. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Will it adequately cool my engine after I add AC? It gets hot in the South. I doubt it will.
     
  19. Dan Hach

    Dan Hach Well-Known Member

    I don't see why not. For the 62, the capacity is the same between the A/C and non-A/C radiators. There is a different radiator but as near as I can tell, it has more to do with routing the hoses differently to clear the shroud and the compressor. Get a manual and look for yourself.
     
  20. Rockable

    Rockable Well-Known Member

    Also, I will have to devise a way to attach an electric fan or shroud. With the short water pump, its a long way to the radiator.
     

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