My Uncle gave the go ahead on the 528 cid and that will pay for my build, but I need to know what's good about it and what's so bad about it! Any and all information will be greatful! This is what he wants, For starters, the heads must be TA performance. Stage 2 TE, the cam custom ground, ta'headers, the intake will be buy ta but haven't decided on single or dual plane yet, he wants atleast 725+ hp and be streetable! He wants to take me on the Power Tour I plan on having Mike at TA to have a light weight crank made for us and have either Eagle rods or Oliver rods with Forged pistons. They must be light weight too. This engine is for cruising and some ( very little drag racing, maybe. once a month). He is eager to drive in the long haul. then actually doing anything else. He also wants to attend most of the Buick races and swap meets. More show then going fast but have the power just incase some young kid in poo stain decides to get stupid .
a 528 is an old iron block stroker combo. 4.370x4.400 Most often built as a 523, 525 or a 529... 4.350,4.360,4.375 bore respectively.. Is this what your talking about?.. an Iron block motor? JW
Power Tour with a filled and girdled stock iron block? At that power level you will to do both plus the CR will need to be 13:1 so good luck with that.
725hp+ with pump gas and a dual plane is NOT gonna happen. and from what ive aalways heard the Rod angle on the 494's and such dont contribute much in theway of longevity. 550to625 is about the most you gonna make NA and it be a "driver" , a big cube Tomahawk would be a different story
They take extra care in mounting the block to the frame. The mount area can work free from the block at high power levels. The main saddles are at risk of failure even with a light rotating assembly and girdle.
In all honesty I would set a goal at 600hp for a street car , after that your just wasting time and money. so why not just stick with 470 ci
Back in the early 90's after selling our '70 drag car, Dave Benisek mentioned that he wanted to build a similar red street/strip car that he could run at the GS Nationals in the popular street eliminator class. I discussed a proposed engine combination with Jim Bell and I am quite sure this is when the first Buzilla was conceived. We ordered a Moldex 4 1/2 inch stroke billet crankshaft, .010 oversize 10:1 pistons for pump gas, and 7 inch long Carillo rods for the rotating assembly. Ported iron heads, full K/B main support, Mopar 383 single plane intake with K/B adapter plates, Mk C107 camshaft, and Holley 1050 dominator rounded out the primary parts selection. We knew that the engine would be drunk with torque and we installed the "unknown" Mopar manifold and dominator carb to basically confuse the competitors. The engine and car performed flawlessly at the GS Nationals the first time out and other than changing the variable pitch converter from an ll inch to a 13 inch, no other changes were needed. I am quite sure there was no rule at the time regarding cubic inches and you had to drive the car on the street prior to qualiflying for eliminations. I remember times for the car in the 11 flat range and dyno numbers in the 600 ft.lbs. range. I believe Bruce Kent currently owns the car and has made many changes to it over the years from this initial effort and there was an article on it in CarCraft magazine shortly after it was first put together. Doug Jones
That is the one I wanna do but with heavily ported TA stage 2 heads and possible roller cam! Just those two alone will be worth atleast a hundred or more horsepower, then have possible dry sump oiling system. I will be having a lot of talks with some people that has done this combo to see where the limit will be? Like I said my uncle would like close to700-750 horsepower or more. It doesn't. mean he will get it! I'm not footing this build, just the builder, not even the machinist , I'm sending the block and ies out to have everything done except deburring the block, rounding off the oil passages. Besides that, the machine shop of my choice is not going to like me because I'm anal on spec's! Why would the block have to be filled for? Why does people think you can't have high compression without cooling problem's? I have done several engine's that have been 14.5:1 compression and not have a sign cooling problem ! A 400 small block chevy are a problem child when adding aftermarket heads on them, especially when it has 14.5:1 c.r. ! I on the othet hand has never incountered that problem but I was taught what use and how to use it. Being a engine builder to oval track guys, you will learn what radiators work the best Also, having the right air movement in the engine bay has a great deal with keeping thing cool to Now, what's the ugly about the 528 and what's so awesome about it? Sincerely Gary M.
Sorry JW, I answered wrong the first time but the 4 1/2 stroke is the dirty deed! Please elaborate on this still! Sincerely Gary M.
To answer that question is simple, TORQUE.... You will have to scream the 470 up to get the same torque as an 528 at a lower rpm! That alone will save the block because I don't have to winder her up past 6200 rpm matter of fact, I'm gonna shot for 5500 to max of 5800 rpm for maximum torque! Now, is this beyond my scope? No, is it beyond , lets say AM&P's machine shop definitely not. I told you guys I'm getting information everywhere. I want your guys opinion not a let down.. sincerely Gary M.
Lot of variables Gary, Blocks being the main one... I might sonic check 2 dozen blocks to hopefully find one that would fit that bill. When I find one, that core is worth $500.. they are very rare, and come in all years, not just the 75/6 motors. If you found one of these blocks, with a featherweight alum rod reciprocating assembly (around 1600g bw) and kept the rpm below 6000, you would stand a decent chance of an unfilled block, with a girdle, surviving. Realistically, a street motor spends most if it's life far below max power/rpm levels. Of more concern to me is your hoped for power level. I have built the motor your talking about.. 750 HP took a big solid roller cam, big intake, to go along with those heads, and those specs are not going to be good for any type of cruising engine. My advice? Invest in an aluminum block, with the stock Buick crank saddles.. you can build a very durable 503ci motor for around 11K for the shortblock, and be the basis for serious power down the line, with maybe a power adder. JW
You are better off going 535... 4.5 stroke and 4.350 bore. Go with a 2.100 crank pin so the big end of the rod will be a bit small and not have as many clearance issues.
JW, If I realistically hit my hp level do you think the torque out put be obtainable? The engine will not be ran over 6000 rpm at all. I want to have a decent nasty rumble of a cam but not overly stupid! My uncle wants to be able to race this is he wants and go in the low 10's to high 9's with any type of help! He is willing to spend some cash to make happen! Sincerely Gary M.
JW, After thinking about this thread, you are correct! Go with a TA aluminum block at 4.500 bore and a 3.95 stroke (2.200 rod journal) for 503 CID or 4.500 bore and a 4.00 stroke (2.100 rod journal) for 509 CID. Spend the CASH on a block and not the crankshaft!
Basically we are doing that combo but with Oliver parabolic connecting rods and I'm going to talk with Mike at TA to see if he can call Winberg crankshaft to have them make our crank for us. The pistons, I believe TA works with Diamond pistons for custom pistons, needless to say, Diamond makes all of Mike Morans Billet pistons for him Would it be wise to fill only the first quarter of the bottom of the block compared to have fill? From my understanding , the coolant only circulates from the soft plugs on up! Here is another question for you guys, instead of having soft plugs put in, would it be better to thread the soft plug area and install alien head screws? Wouldn't that help stablelize the block alittle bet more? Any and all information is gonna be considered. Sincerely. Gary M.
I like that thought but its the TA block close to Ten g's? I would consider that if my uncle was going to pound on it but he just wants something with more torque them average Flint street racer ( They run in the 10's. ) . I prefer the Aluminum block because We could spray a ton of nitrous to it or have a fuel injected twin turbo engine in the future if he wanted then. Please let me know the price of a new TA block! Sincerely Gary M.
Looking at the prices of the aluminum blocks it looks like you would be much farther ahead using one than having all the machine work done to a cast iron block and buying a billet crank, $$$$$. Good insurance also that all your efforts aren't in making a time bomb that can go poof any time the go peddle is pressed. A streetable 500 CID pump gas build that can have a pro-charger or turbo added later would be a way funner street ride than what you were thinking of building IMO. The good part about doing this way is your unc can have even more power with boost than the other way. No girdles required. GL Derek
Thank you, you guys I'm gonna call my uncle tomorrow and discuss the price of the block then the other goodies All I can say is Hell ya and I can't what to get started on this project... Thanks again guys.. Sincerely Gary M.
