430 with stage 2 heads opinions

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by 83T-type, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    It’s been some time since I’ve been on here, but I think it’s time to upgrade my 430. It’s got good power in my 84 regal but with drag radials it’s almost difficult to do a burnout to get heat in them. Almost I say, it does heat them up but pushes through the brakes currently and dead hooks. I did a cheap rebuild, with arp rod and head bolts, TA cover and pump. I reused old cast pistons so if I remember I was near 9:1 but realistically with the 430 heads i think it’s maybe very high 8s. Currently I use the SP1 intake and the 284 TA cam. Since I don’t have headers on the car I figured if I’m going to buy heads I’ll get the stage 2. I didn’t do the math but I think this will get compression a hair over 9 and I’ll be happy with that, it’s mainly a street car but I do plan to race more frequently. My concern is that with the 430 (.030 over) the valves will be shrouded by the smaller bore. I’d hate to regret getting stage 1 heads (same valve size), especially since I will get headers either way. Is this just a 400 issue? Opinions please! Not looking to go all out, heads and headers would pretty much be the budget.
     
  2. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    I ran the big valves on my 436, it ran GREAT!

    Devon
     
  3. SubCool

    SubCool SubCooled

    No stage 1 or stage 2 TA heads currently available so you have plenty of time to decide.
     
  4. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    With stk bore 430 you can clear 2.125 valves. But not the bigger 2.250. I just went through this looking to put a stk bore 430 together after my 464 puked a rod. TA told me 2.160 is max valve size on a 430......so my te2 heads with the bigger valves wouldn't clear.....and. 030 over bore wind change that.......so if you do get a set, you must use the smaller valve

    Now a bigger question is why are you having trouble doing burn out. I had a stk bottom end 430, my ported iron heads, smaller. 500 lift cam, and it ran 11.30s, would have no issues doing burn outs.....I had 4.1 gears and 4500k converter but would be rolling tires easy in 1st gear by 3500....

    So if you issue is hard to do burnout......it sounds like a bigger tuning issue than just heads.

    What gear do u have, converter etc
     
  5. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    To help out I did the bore notching trick on my 436 as well (BBC shown for reference).

    IMG.jpg

    Devon
     
  6. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    It’s a th400 that the converter stalls about 2300 which I know is hurting the launch. 3.73 gears in a 8.5 GN 10 bolt. It will fry street tires through all 3 gears, but with 275 drag radials it only burns for 3-5 seconds and starts pushing the car. After the 3-5 burnout, the tires wrinkle and it dead hooks. Didn’t know if that was normal, it’s the first car I ever put “sticky” tires on. Before I call TA anyone know how backed up they are? Sounds like I’ll probably go the stage 2 route with 2.13 intakes.
     
  7. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Most sticky tires will pull down when doing a burn out when they get hot, but I've not seen one hook in the box while doing a burn out.

    In my car I start in 1st give it a quick stab, and I quickly get it into 2nd gear, I sit about 5000, it will start to pull down when it gets to 4500 I let it slide out.......sometimes it bit quickly others intakes it a little.....others time it never stops and I have to let off.........that's when I know the track is junk.

    Not sure if this is track only or a dual duty car......but year the converter seems soft......but you might just have to be slightly more aggressive with it in and out of the box
     
  8. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    Before you order anything I would suggest measuring the deck height. If you didn't cut the deck when you rebuilt the 430 I'd bet a cold beer your pistons are probably .075-.090 in the hole at tdc. While it's a bit more work than you want, it'll be worth the time to disassemble the engine and fixing that.
     
    Schurkey likes this.
  9. Pro69GS400

    Pro69GS400 Well-Known Member

    The 430 in my skylark is respectable runner. 3800 lbs. with me in it. It has TA Stage 1 SE heads, 950 quick fuel on a SPX. The bottom end similar to what you described. The switch pitch stalled around 3000. Camshaft .525 lift 244 duration. With 3:90 gear it was running 11.70’s at the Nationals. Shifting at 5800 and it hitting 6000 at the peak of the shift. The sticky’s do hook quicker but you should have no trouble turning them. It doesn’t take much to push thru my brakes also when launching. I have a line lock that helps on burn out, but foot braking at the line I can’t hold the car back much more than 1600 rpm before it over rides and starts pushing it thru the lights. I have drum rears and front disk. I put a different converter in it that was built by Gary Paine’s (Thumper) converter builder and it runs 11.40’s now. Very street-able combo.
    I think some more fine tuning may be needed on you combo to bring it up to peak. It has a the potential to do what you want it to.
     
    70 GMuscle likes this.
  10. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    My fault I wasn’t very clear, they don’t dead hook while doing the burnout. Just after wise as they should. It’s just that if I tried to do a second burnout once they are warmed up it’s almost hard to get them to spin. So I did measure everything when I rebuilt it, and yes the pistons were about .080 in the hole which I know is terrible. So hence the “cheap” rebuild, I just bottle brush honed the walls and did a re ring and bearing. Of course I checked literally everything with a mic but at the time would have had to wait awhile to get the deck cut (very busy local machine shop). So secondly with the pistons buried in the block is it even worth it to upgrade the heads? From memory I had maybe 8.8-8.9 compression so any TA head should bring it to at least 9. I know compression isn’t the only thing I’m missing out on, no quench effect with any head, etc. I’d like to not pull everything apart to cut the deck, because it’s like a disease for me and the next thing I know I’ve ordered custom forged pistons, then things snowball and I have to eat noodles for 2 years.
     
  11. 436'd Skylark

    436'd Skylark Sweet Fancy Moses!!!!!

    I wouldn't call it a waste to buy the heads but it's certainly under utilizing the heads with the pistons .080 down. With 69cc heads you're probably closer to 8.0:1 and your dynamic ratio is in the tank. I would definitely cut the deck while it's apart. You're leaving a lot of power on the table otherwise.
     
  12. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    Why are you needing a second burn out.

    Most pushing through at the light issues ate actually rear brakes not holding.......especially if you get the front end lifting up while there on the line.
     
  13. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    So messing with a compression calculator, even with 71 cc heads, a 20 cc dish pistons and .040” gaskets I saw 8.3. I think the heads were shaved in the past, and I didn’t cc anything on assembly so yea your probably right saying 8.5 would be hopeful. I have a newer challenger that runs mid to high 13s and my Buick seems to feel about the same but it’s hard to tell. Completely different cars with different feelings. That being said the dream would be to get my Buick into high 11s, id be satisfied with a low 12. I haven’t ran the Buick at an actual strip yet, they’re all at least 45 min away and there’s a few items I need to address (before any head purchase) to feel ok with driving there and back worry free.

    second burnout was only noticed when I was launch testing at work in the parking lot. Messing with the instant center with control arm locations. Just was shocked when I went to re heat the tires after an adjustment and it was harder than usual to spin them but the tires still had a little heat in them. Buddy said the front were locked and pushing.
     
  14. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I'm not surprised you have trouble doing a second burn out on the street. Once you burn them the first time, they get sticky. That's all you need on the street. Trying to burn them a second time is hard because they are sticky. What is the point? There is a reason they have water before the burnout area at the track. With drag radials, I do one longer burnout the first time. Every time after that, I just clean them off with a short spin.

    If you are doing this on the street, you must not care about your lower quarter panels.:) On the street, they pick up twigs, leaves, pebbles, and whatever else is laying around. Then you sling that into your paint.
     
    chrisg likes this.
  15. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    Kinda figured once they have any heat they stay sticky for awhile. It sounds like a coffee can of rocks once they get hot, throwing up literally everything. Not to get too far off topic but my car has the texture of a football. Previous owner said he didn’t know you had to reduce basecoat. Not that I don’t care, but currently it’s pretty low on the list, and couldn’t look much worse. The plus side is I work at a body shop so it’s on the list eventually…
     
  16. Pro69GS400

    Pro69GS400 Well-Known Member

    I don’t leave my drag radials on all the time because of all the junk they pick up plus I feel more comfortable when driving further distances or sustained freeway speeds with a street tire. My street tires are like butter compared to the drag radials when doing burn outs or just when shifting at higher rpms they chirp each shift but not as loud with the drag radials.
     
  17. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    Don’t worry about your instant center.
    Check your timing. Total timing should be 32-36 depending on car.
     
  18. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    45 minutes from a drag strip is a dream.
    You need some test n tune time.
     
    chrisg likes this.
  19. 70 GMuscle

    70 GMuscle Plan B

    I leave my drag radials on year round.
    They are good for 2 years then start giving up.
    3 years max on a quick car.
     
  20. 83T-type

    83T-type Well-Known Member

    I do need to hit a test n tune to get a baseline anyway. Too much rubber fuel line in the car at the moment, so I’ll be doing that tonight. At this point I wish I really CC’d everything as I put it together, but it was a race to beat the snow so I could get the motor in the car and get it in storage a few years ago. Any NE Ohio guys doing any tune nights at 42, Norwalk or Thompson before winter? I’m almost the same distance away from all 3
     
    70 GMuscle likes this.

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