He said 629 pistons and rings so he has been working on those rings all day. He said first those rings were too expensive. I ask him if they were single Moly and what was the piston clearance since I have to give this thing a good hone.
I have been looking for headers and got some! 1 3/4 primaries. Fred said if I use the Venolia pistons they will rattle because of the clearance. They call for .008-.0010 at top and .005-.007at the bottom.
So looking for a set of .030 or bigger full floating high compression pistons like stock 4 barrel engines came with or I might buy some Sealed power.
Well since the SP3 came out I'm back trying to build a small block. I bought another 350 from a 76 Regal. These cylinders are not too bad stock but a good bore and TP hone would be the best. I sold those H rods back to Sean so all I have now are these Cap screw from the 76. If I polish them and use flat tops I could probably shift at 6200-6500 and go through the traps at 6200 with a 3.73 gear in My 86 Regal and still hit 10's. Depending on how much I port the 68 heads. I'm thinking .020 deck but I haven't measured this one yet but it would have to be decked some to even the block. Can I find a caliper to measure deck height from the crank journal?
I love seeing them being built.. Wish I could take mine out again and do it right. I have the old weak rods, do you remember what the limit was for on hp and revs? Are you boosting yours?? Being conservative and underselling it I'm at 350 hp, with sp3 lets just say 370, I still wanted to hook up this nitrous kit for a 100 shot of go juice.. Will that be too much ? Sorry to hijack, just rather not post whole new thread about topic thats bin beating to death from what I remember.
check with Derek. about pistons maybe those venolias can work if coated. he mentioned something about they can build up to make up slight clearance issue.
The problem I heard with those pistons was since they have to have some much clearance for the expansion rate they will rattle cold and tear up cylinder walls. Buick 350SF I don't think a thread can be hijacked if it helps someone to drive a Buick!!! I'm ok with any off track replies as long as we stay close to Buick!!! I heard a nicely polished cap screw rod may go 650HP and 6500 RPMs but safely I'm thinking 500HP and 6200 Rpm through the traps. Another Buick guy said 500HP and both rods are the same in strength. I think looking at the cap screw rod it looks stronger.
The cap screw rods are suppose to be good to 600 HP and only 6,000 RPM for short bursts at that power level! The cap screw rods are stronger but they're heavier than the nut and bolt rods. Reducing rotating and reciprocating weight will help run more RPM. I strongly recommend considering using a set of light weight nascar take out rods that will handle much more HP and RPM! This set would work great; http://www.ebay.com/itm/151216114779?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Unfortunately the seller is away until Aug. 30th so that gives you time to decide if you want to go with these. By the time you buy the $120 ARP replacement bolts and have them re-sized for $160($20 a rod to re-size) you can buy the above rods that weigh 500 grams which is around 150 grams less than the cap screw rods you could put an offer in for the $280 it would cost to try to make the stock rods hold up. With those nascar take out rods you could have the crank offset ground for .100" more stroke or have the crank index ground at the stock stroke for the 1.889" rod journals the nascar take outs need. The extra .100" would help low end a bit, get the cubes up to around 370! You're going to need all the help you can get if you plan on running in the 10s! Do you plan on running 10s with nitrous? If you go with those rods go with the '76 crank and drill the hole that is started in the journal all the way thru and drill one thru on the 7-8 journal as well. Grind off that un-necessary material around the 1-2 journal hole to lighten it even more. You can probably open the hole up to a couple sizes bigger, notice how its off set, that is so it doesn't hit the oiling holes so remember to offset the 7-8 hole to avoid hitting the oiling holes in that journal as well. Doing this will help internal balance the crank with minimum heavy metal added. The cap screw rod cranks are balanced with heavier rotating assemblies than the earlier rod cranks so it will be easier to internal balance than the older cranks. If drilling out the 1-2, 7-8 rod journals isn't enough if you can try to drill the center 2-3, 5-6 journals out as well to avoid heavy metal. Offset grinding will make the crank need heavier throws to make it balance but will make the piston .050" shorter so probably a wash? Grinding the flash off of the un-machined area of the rod journal area of the crank will help make bob weight lighter. Internal balancing is better than external if you plan on spinning it more than 6,500 RPM, with the MUCH stronger lighter take out rods you would be able to spin the engine to over 7,500 RPM!!! The above rods have thick bushings in them because they were probably supposed to be .927" pin diameter, could be bigger than that without the bushings so a .927" ID bushing would go in the hole, not sure? If so even with an extra .100" stroke you would be able to use an off the shelf Buick piston with these rods because the rods are .015" shorter than a factory rod length and the added stroke would bring the piston up .050" for less deck machining, so .050" - .015" = .035" that the extra stroke would bring the piston up which the deck will still need to be machined to achieve zero deck especially if you use the '76 block those are rumored to have even more deck height to them than the earlier blocks which have .025"- .040" more on them. As for the piston coating Andy mentioned, the pistons are coated so they have an interference fit meaning they have a light press fit when they're installed. Can't remember the name of the place off hand will have to ask Dave of Engine Craft he has dealt with them before and highly recommends the coating. Engines he has used it on he said they picked up power because of the extra sealing you get with the coating because the piston can't rock in the bore as much with the coating. A NEW CLASS OF COATINGS INTRODUCING APC ABRADABLE POWDER COATING I found it, here is the website; http://www.line2linecoatings.com/ Instead of boring the block to the next piston size the block can be honed all to the biggest bore and the pistons coated with the APC coating instead of buying new pistons. Better for performance builds that have expensive pistons that are still good but the block is out of spec. It costs around $30 per piston for the service. GL Derek
I run old forged TRW's. No rattle, they needed added clearance. My mach. shop guy said he thought the lighter nut bolt style rods were just fine.
Remember this is a stocker Apollo running 11.40's with stock 4 barrel intake, Hershe rods, Dish pistons, Big duration low lift cam and I think 4.10 gears. I will have flat tops, SP3 intake, ported heads and bigger cam just to go 4 tenth faster in the Regal.
How much oil pressure you guys getting at 6000 RPMs with the Melling/TA oil pump repair kits? I matched the plate up with the Kenne Bell plate and the one hole is in a different location.
OK here is the piston post, those pistons are probably made from the 2618 forged aluminum alloy the AutoTec pistons are made from the 4032 forged aluminum alloy. The 4032 alloy doesn't require as much clearance as the 2618 alloy so you can run slightly tighter clearances with the 4032 alloy. The 2618 alloy is used for extreme cylinder pressure type builds like very high compression with lots of nitrous or with highly boosted applications. The 4032 can only handle around 5 PSI of boost or around a 175 HP shot of nitrous. So if you're under 13:1 compression and don't plan on running more than a 175 HP shot of nitrous or no more than 5 PSI of boost the lessor expensive AutoTec pistons are more than adequate. No need to buy new Venolia pistons and coat them, if you can buy them used for a great deal even if they're .030" over and you need to bore the block .040" over they would work great with the coating. Other than that the AutoTecs should be good for your application, plus they could be ordered to easily work with the rods I mentioned in my previous post. Why put $280 and a bunch of work into a set of stock rods when you can buy a set of nascar take outs for probably $280(if bought new would cost over $2,000!) with an offer bid that would hold up to anything you could throw at them? The only extra cost would be the crank work. As far as running in the 10s because the super stock guys are running 11.40s is hilarious! LOL!(sorry, its never that simple) Point 4 would be 400 lbs lighter, the point one faster rule for every 100 lbs lighter. Or whatever the needed power is for that much faster? If you know the mile per hour they're running in the QM and the weight of the car you can use a Wallace racing calculator that uses those perimeters to figure out HP. If you know the weight of your car with a sbb 350 in it you can probably use the calculator by putting in the weight and the time to tell you what HP you need to have to run that number. Either way you'll need all the help to get into the 10s N/A that you can get! A little extra stroke, as big as a bore the block will handle and the heads ported to max out the CFM as you can get! You should sonic test your .060" over block and see if it'll go .105" over, an extra .045" more, there are good ring paks available at that size plus there are head gaskets available with that diameter as well from www.buyracingparts.com the same place the AutoTecs are sold. The head gaskets are .050" thick though so if you're shooting for a .045" quench ring then the pistons need to be .005" above the deck.(no big deal) I believe it can be done but you'll need to unlock all the power you can from this build that you can to get there. Thinner rings for less friction, lighter rods and lighter pistons to rev faster, smaller diameter valve stems with larger diameter valve heads that are lighter might as well go down to 8mm valve stems while your reducing the diameter to free up power from a lighter valve train and squeeze out a bit more CFM at the same time. Use beehive springs to further reduce weight and reduce spring pressure that reduces friction that frees up power. A roller cam would help tremendously to not only reduce friction to free up power, a roller cam can have a MUCH more aggressive ramp rate to open and close the valves faster than a flat tappet grind can do. Look to ebay for LS7 take out valve springs, sometimes they'll sell them with springs, retainers, locks. and seals.(seals won't work but the rest of the stuff will) The installed height for those springs are 1.960" so get valves that are longer to accommodate those if you find some. Those springs if you find them are good to over .550" lift with a hydraulic roller cam so even if you use a huge solid flat tappet cam they should still control the valves. I bought a set for like $100 I think, it was a while ago I would have to check, they're going to go on Andy's heads if Henry ever gets well enough to finish them.(the last time I heard he was going through chemo to treat his cancer, that was about 3 months ago. I just sent an email asking how he's doing.) If you install them at 1.800" they'll probably be good for a solid roller cam to .600" lift? That's enough for now. GL Derek
A tip for 350 guys. If you guys want to get more power out of these 350's you have to get the pistons within .020 of the deck. I just checked my 76 block and the deck height to those pistons are .075-.085 plus big dish in the pistons. I measured the compression height of the piston and from the 76 stock I got 1.823. A 68 4 barrel piston has 1.855 CH A Venolia Stocker piston is 1.855 CH Ta shows 1.875 CH I haven't measured a 350 piston or seen one for sale with that figure yet.
Here is a pic of the different specs I found. That depth gauge shows .073 from the deck on that 76 piston. I Mounted a 68 piston on a cap screw rod and will check that depth.
That's odd that your about .020 what advertised CH should be on the 76 and the 68. I have found advertised replacement for 68 to be 1.835 and 76 to be at 1.805. 71 low compression seems to be at 1.835 with big dish. My 71 engine piston depth is .058 . I have heard rebuilt engines with pistons being .090 or more down hole.
.020 or less Is what I'm saying it needs to be from the deck how ever you get there by cutting off the deck or buying pistons with more compression height.
I am just trying to alert the 350 crowd of my findings! I'm thinking .020 or less deck. Does anyone here have a 350 torque plate they want to sell?
Sorry too late I having one made. Do you 350 guys want one? I will let you know how well it fits! Now getting rods is the next step. Keep calling Eagle wanting Buick 350 rods. Ask them what's the hold up? Tell them there is new intake and heads coming out and I need rods!! It would be so cool when Buick guys said I got my rods and pistons and heading to the dyno!!! That's a ruff finish on those rods I will make them more slick!!!
X2, years ago I had my deck cut .050 so my pistons which are suppose to be 9.25 to 1 @ .020 in the hole, are sitting at .005 in the hole, I wanted compressionp
