Anyone out there have any sure fire tips for documenting a 69 GS Stage 1? I have confirmed the following info on this car: VIN 446679H332XXX Cowl Tag ST 69-44667 FL1 284052 BDY TRM 166 65B PNT 05E Car is a 4spd with small console and tach, convert. According to current owner there are no emblem holes in the hood? All info would be appreciated! Thanks! Howdy
Gee, That article looks familiar. :Brow: 12 years later (was originally done in 91 in Musclecars magazine) and it is still hanging around. :grin: 4 speed cars are even harder to identify as there is no specific trans code. Look for carb and distributer #'s where possible along with the block # RS. Good Luck, Mark
Hey Tom There are a few mistakes in that factory stage 1 art. Marco has several documented stage 1 cars from (I think) Fremont and Framingham. I'm just guessing here, but I think they were most familiar with 70 stage 1's when they wrote that. I would say it is about 85-90% correct though. I also remember the 71 stage carb number is incorrectly listed. For 69 stage, wouldn't the Sloan M. have that info? Marco will know.:Smarty:
The 71 carb # looks wrong and it may be a typo. I would have to check the original article. All the literature I had listed the carb # as 7041242 and not 241. The main point on the article was for mostly 69 and 70. Supposedly there is a documented 70 Stage 1 car built in Fremont. I have not heard about the one in Framingham. Though that is possible too. Marco may have some info on that. When Jim Mcgowan from Musclecars (the NJ mag) contacted me it was his intent on putting an article together for the majority of 69 and 70 cars that were being cloned at the time in 1991. The article was later changed when it was put in the G$CA newsletter and an additional author was listed at that time. Somewhere I have the article as it was originally written for Musclecars. It was the best information available at that time and more data has become available over the last 12 years which helps clear up some of the identification questions that were not clearly defined at the time. Marco has done some superb work on getting a Stage1 registry together to list the true originals that are out there now. I am sure he would be glad to add some input. All in all, you should be able to get the data you need both from the article and from Marco to help you out. Regards, Mark DeConti
Re: Hey Tom Sloan doesn't have the VIN information for the 1969 model year. I have a very strong belief that 1969-1970 factory Stage1s came out of Flint only. In 1971 and up, Buick added Freemont CA and Framingham MA to the Stage1 manufacturing list. I wouldn't be surprised if other plants produced them as well - I've just never seen documentation. Mark - There is NO factory Stage1 car from outside Flint for the 1970 model year. A dealer conversion? Maybe, but DEFINITELY not from the factory. I've obtained information from Flint (the info I showed you at the chapter meeting this spring) that clearly indicates all Stage1 cars were built in Flint. I also concour that 1971 Stage1 carbs were 7041242. Howdy - Mark D is right (He did write that article originally, you know :Brow: ) - Only the RS engine code (with the matching VIN #) will be the determining factor if it's a factory Stage1 car. Can you find the engine code, along with the VIN? Does your car have chrome valve covers? What are the Carb #s? The Dist #? These numbers will put you close. There's also the possibility of finding paperwork with the car. On top of the gas tank, under the seats (or rug), inside the door panels, or under the dash. Good luck, and let us know how you make out.
Marco, Thanks for jumping in on this. :grin: We can talk on this off line. Things got VERY "political" on that Fremont car back in my old G$CA days. Part of the reason why that article became co-authored. I agree, check carb, block and dist. numbers and go from there. I try never to say never on what anyone may find about their car. My only point would be that after over 34 years anything can be switched. The last Sportwagon I got has a 69 400 motor in it with chrome valve covers. A Stage 1? Probably not, though it would be nice. Gotta check the numbers. But it illustrates the point of parts switching. I won't likely be back online until late tuesday night if you would like to hear the story. See you all then, Mark
I think you could buy the chrome valve covers and chrome air cleaner lid as a dress up package for the 400 motor in '69. I know a chrome dress up kit was not available from Buick in '68, but one was available in '67. If it was not available as a dress up kit in '69 I do not see a reason why you could not order the parts from the dealer and install them since were were a standard part on the stage 1. Just a thought... :beer
Thanks for the help guys, hopefully I will be looking at the car soon and I will let you know! Thanks!!! Howdy
Sidenote to the dress up kit/sportwagon/stage 1 topic--My brother has a Sportwagon 400 he bought from the original owner and it has the chrome valve covers and air cleaner lid. The elderly owner ordered it that way! It seems that the 69's are a great deal more difficult to authenticate if the motor is gone, almost impossible!
Guys I thought that all the '69 GS400 cars had the chrome valve covers and air cleaner lid. Am I wrong? I've never heard of it being an option.o No: Hmmmm.. Guess I'm gonna have to do some research. Please fill me in on this. Where can I find this info?
Chrome was only standard on the '69 Stage 1 cars, not even the air cleaner lid was standard (chrome). In '68 the chrome air cleaner lid was standard on GS's, but chrome valve covers were not available (they were in '67, I wonder why they skipped '68o No: )
In no way am I saying that I have a Stage 1 car but this raises my eyebrows a little. I do know that my motor is not original. It is a RR block from '69 but it's not #'s match. Man I wish I had the build sheet for this car.:ball: Only place left to check is under the gas tank. My car was built in Fremont so I guess that pretty much answers that question anyway. I realize that over a 34 year span a lot of these lids and valve covers probably made their way to the chrome shop anyway. I remember seeing a '69 stage 1 conv. 4-speed for sale on the GSCA board a long time ago. Man that would be a sweet and very rare car.
I just read through this thread and all still seems accurate. Documenting a '69 Stage 1 is similar to a '71. Gotta have a block, trans. (automatic only), or a build sheet/window sticker/dealer invoice/ GM of Canada (Canadian cars only) docs. Some experts can correct if I'm wrong.
Has to be Flint built. No exceptions. Only 100% sure fire way, on a 1969, is documentation. That’s it. Block- RS, with VIN stamp - good indicator Trans- BB with matching VIN, M21 with matching VIN Rear- OO or ON. Hood holes: spaced wider for stage 1 emblem All of these parts can be restamped or replaced. Would be restampers: besides date code, there IS a way of telling if a block is original… closely guarded secret, not discussed openly. Hence, only 100% way is paperwork.
As stated above without any factory paper work you need to verify the part numbers of the parts, the numbers stamped into everything, and then make sure all the parts in question are correctly date coded for your car. Other then that I see no way of doing it. Duane
