‘70 Electra rear spring question

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by RustyFuryIII, Feb 25, 2022.

  1. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    While the car was being offloaded, the driver allowed me to crawl under to take pictures of the underside before he rolled it off.

    Was quickly snapping pics, not really zeroing in on any issues at the moment.

    later that evening, after the enthusiasm died down, began looking at the pictures.
    Noticed both rear springs were not attached to the rear axel.

    Anyone have pics or descriptions of what parts I’m missing? More importantly, nut and bolt size.

    There’s a junkyard bout 1/2 hr from home. Has a bunch of Electras he says and I want to head over to see what I can get. If anything.

    Thank you,

    Paul
     
  2. pbr400

    pbr400 68GS400

    The springs sit in round pockets withraised centers. The weight of the car holds them in. You may need to jack the car so that you can reposition them.
    Patrick
     
  3. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    Nailhead in a 1967,

    No self leveling rear suspension on this car that I'm aware of. Had that on my '96 Buick Roadmaster Estate Limited wagon. Man I miss that car.

    Anyway, here is a photo of one of the springs. Looks like the shocks may be original as well based on the excerpt from your manual?
    Please understand I know little about this old car. Been wrenching on plenty in my day, just not this make, model or year. You may tell me this photo reveals a perfectly fine coil spring install.
    Looks super odd to me, as if it's cocked off to one side, not really centered on the spring perch. That hole in the center of the spring perch looks like, to me anyway, it's missing hardware.

    I am going to be ordering and replacing all four springs and shocks as well. Just that when I get back under there, I want to have all the parts needed for the job.
    Is Eaton a good place for springs? I really don't know what spring rate I should go with either. Just don't want a saggy rear end with a few adults and some gear in the trunk.
    Been down the air shock route with the '96 wagon, bit too basketball bouncy for me I guess.
    Any particular brand shocks folks go with for the 225s?

    Rear Coil Spring.JPG


    Rear Spring Pass.JPG


    Thanks again for the response, greatly appreciated.

    Paul
     
  4. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Generally, the spring perch on the rear axle assembly has a raised metal collar that the pig tail of the spring fits around. Same thing at the top of the spring. This is enough to retain the spring as the rear axle travel is restrained by the shock absorber, and the spring isn't going anywhere.

    20190417.jpg





    There are earlier cars that bolt the bottom of the spring to the perch. When I bought my car, the springs were bolted to the perch at the bottom. It was bolted together to use a spacer to shim the spring up. There was a flat dish that the bottom of the spring sat on, then a spacer, a small metal cup top and bottom bolted it all together to hold it in place.
    Spring1.jpg Spring2.jpg
    Have a look at the axle perch. If it is completely flat without a collar, then you can bolt it together like the pictures. You just need a cup top and bottom, small enough that it fits inside the spring pigtail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2022
  5. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    Nailhead and Larry,

    Thank you both for the suggestions.

    Nailhead,

    The information you provided puts my mind at ease. The spring perch as I can see it in the pictures I took when compared to your manual info and your explanation seems to fit. Right now, the wrong end of the car is up for oil and filter change as well as antifreeze change. Front end lube etc.

    Larry,

    When I get the rear end up, I’m going to take a much closer look at the whole thing. Let everyone know what I find and have done once I get up in there. Thank you for the photos and information.

    Greatly appreciated from both of you.

    RustyFuryIII
     
  6. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Paul,

    There is what is called a clamp that gets installed inside the rear spring both top & bottom that holds it in place with I believe a 1/2" bolt, nut & washer. There should also be a rubber type mount for the spring to sit against at the top to help keep from squeaking/making noise.
    They are most likely not available new but should be readily available used. May I suggest James at Best Offer Counts. I'm sure he, as well as others may have them along with myself, BUT I'm not crawling under cars to do it in this snow & weather conditions right now.

    Tom T.
     
  7. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    Tom,

    Thank you for the info on who I might be able to source these parts from if needed. I may very well be contacting them if I need those parts.

    Still have the front end up. Changed oil and filter Saturday. Honestly looked like it hadn’t been changed in the 15yrs the previous owner had it. Never pulled an oil filter from a car that showed a little surface rust on the face of the filter. Good news though, no sparkles in the oil or on the drain plug. Previous owner only put 5100 miles on the car during those 15 yrs. Have all receipts for work done, all in the first 2yrs of his ownership.

    Changed coolant Sunday. Flushed block, heater core, radiator and overflow bottle. There was enough Barr’s Stop Leak in this thing to build a Disney Castle sand castle.

    Previous owners receipts show radiator, heater core, rad hoses and heater hoses being replaced. Guessing no one bothered to flush all the Stop Leak out.

    Doing spark plugs today. Still waiting on trans pan gasket and trans filter. Once that’s done, going to drop the front end and raise up the rear end to inspect further the springs. Relocate them back on top of the perches. Then go over all the rubbers back there, see which ones need to be replaced now etc.

    Will update when I can.

    Paul
     
  8. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    Thought I'd post an update on my rear spring question and issue that I posted a while back.

    I did purchase a used shop manual for the car. And in the section of the manual, it states the only thing holding the rear springs in place is gravity. The car sitting on the spring perches pretty much "holds" 'em in place.

    I purchased a new set of HD rear springs and the top rubber isolators from EATON Detroit Spring along with a new set of KYB Gas Adjust rear shocks. Thought about going with AC Delco shocks, but they're made in China, KYB are made in Japan. Went with KYB.
    Also purchased a new set of coil spring compression tools.

    Comparing the old rear coil springs to the new coil springs, the old coil springs had, over time, been compressed a bit. Such that they were now roughly 2" shorter than the new coil springs. This measurement was taken with the old and new springs out of the car laying side by side on the ground. And I'm certain, that over time, the new coil springs will settle out a bit.

    My original concern, which I'm no longer actually really concerned about now, was the amount of difference between how the rear driver's side of the car sat vs the rear passenger's side. The rear driver's side of the car sat a bit lower to the ground vs the rear passenger's side. This as measured from the ground to the top of the wheel opening lip. I thought new springs would alleviate this somewhat. And, to an extent it did, but there is still a difference.

    The shop manual says the rear ride height with full tank of gas and other fluids, should be 22 3/4" from the ground to the top of the wheel opening lip. And while I did not take any measurements of this dimension before removing the old springs, I did so after the new springs and shocks were installed. And yes, I'm aware shocks have nothing to do with vehicle height. The car now sits as follows after new shocks and springs. Rear driver's side - 18 1/2". Rear Passenger's side 21 1/2". A difference of 3". The front end of the car looks fine, front bumper and grill are square or parallel to the ground. And the rear, visually, shows the rear driver's side to be somewhat lower than the passenger's side. Not alarmingly so, but noticeable.

    I've looked at many, many videos and pictures of '68, '69 and 1970 Buick Electra 225s online. Doesn't matter if they're convertibles, 2dr, 4dr, hardtop or sedan. The vast majority appear to sag pretty good in the rear. And for good reason. Almost 2 1/2 tons of weight has sat on those rear springs for 50+ years. And, the vast majority of those cars I've viewed, sit lower on the driver's side rear than on the passenger's side. So, after viewing so many pics and videos online and finding they're pretty much on par with my '70 Electra. I consider this a non issue and chalk it up to an engineering, age, design and/or manufacturing issue back in the day. The frame is straight, nothing under the car is bent. The spring perches aren't bent. The upper spring pockets are identical/undamaged. The old springs were installed correctly and were actually sitting on their perches. The springs were old though and one appeared to bow out a bit on one of the coils.

    Included are some pictures. Just thought I'd follow up. If you have anything to add, or something else I might take a look at. Please let me know. Thank you.

    Rear passenger - Before

    IMG_5698.JPG


    Rear Passenger - After
    IMG_5700.JPG


    Rear Driver's Side - Before
    IMG_5699.JPG


    Rear Driver's Side - After
    IMG_5701.JPG

    Again, just thought I'd post a follow up.

    Enjoy,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2022
    Mark Demko and 69WILD like this.
  9. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    image.jpg
    I just did a spring (front and rear) swap on a 65 GTO with KYB shocks, the KYB shocks are made in Malaysia.
     
  10. RustyFuryIII

    RustyFuryIII Well-Known Member

    Mark,

    That was my mistake. I should not have made the blanket statement, “KYB shocks are made in Japan.”

    I checked the boxes the KYB shocks came in for my car again. They are made in Japan. Also stated same on Eaton website I ordered them from. Yours made in Malaysia.

    KYB, like other manufacturers of goods, appears to have various parts made in various countries!

    Next, I’m tackling inspecting, replacing if necessary and bleeding brakes. Replacing front and rear rubber brake lines.Inspecting, cleaning and repacking front wheel bearings. Need oil pressure and water temp gauge before feeling comfortable taking her out on the road. Still have rocker arms to replace as well. Little by little!

    Enjoy,

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  11. Nailhead in a 1967

    Nailhead in a 1967 Kell-Mnown Wember

    They also make parts in the US.
    Orange dots are production locations:

    Click map to visit their website

    [​IMG]



    KYB Americas Corporation (Indiana) 2625 North Morton, Franklin, Indiana
    [​IMG]
    KYB Americas Corporation (Greenwood) 850N Graham Road, Greenwood, Indiana
    [​IMG]
    KYB Americas Corporation (Chicago) 180 Meadow Rd, Addison, IL
    [​IMG]
    Takako America Co., INC. 715 Corey Road Hutchinson, Kansas
    [​IMG]
    KYB International America, Inc. 2625 North Morton, Franklin, Indiana
    [​IMG]
     

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