400 cooling and oil pressure issue

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by 69_GS_400, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I find that hard to believe. You should start a thread in the Bench asking if anyone on V8 lives near you. I think you might be surprised.
     
  2. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    Checking/setting timing is not Buick specific. Just find someone who is competent and knowledgeable and have them check the timing as per earlier in the thread and post the results.
     
  3. 69_GS_400

    69_GS_400 Well-Known Member

    I’m going to see if i can get some help over here. I don’t really know any other Buick guys that wrench and know there way around a motor . We do have guys with Buick’s at the events but there scattered an unfortunately we don’t group together or have the resources that some of you other guys do.

    Not to add to the bugs I’m working out here but I’ve also noticed I get a hot start once and awhile. Not an immediate shut down and restart. More of its sat for 20-30min again on a hot day and it takes a bit to start.

    By taking down the timing will I lose power?
     
  4. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You won't lose power. Your current timing is costing you power right now, not so much at light throttle, but definitely when you get on it. The problem you may have, especially if you have some cam in the engine, is the engine may not want to idle with little initial timing. You basically don't have an optimal distributor to work with because of the large amount of mechanical advance. You do have some options, and it sounds like you are capable of doing this, but you lack the confidence to do it. There has to be someone you know who has some experience working on ignition timing. As mentioned, ignition timing principles are not unique to Buick engines. Buick engines are actually easier to work on due to distributor placement. The easiest thing for you to do is use a bushing to reduce your mechanical advance. The Mr gasket kit has a nice brass one,

    http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.-Gasket/72...MI09yWuKz41gIVg0OGCh3yuw22EAQYASABEgJNAPD_BwE

    The only thing difficult is installing the bushing is awkward being the slot is under the rotor. Of course taking the distributor out and turning it upside down makes things a lot easier. Here are 2 pictures (from the P.T. thread) illustrating bushing placement.
    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?attachments/advancebush2-jpg.40145/

    http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?attachments/advancebushing2-jpg.307016/

    The bushing reduces the amount of mechanical advance allowing you to run more initial advance which is probably what you need. If you can install that bushing, I can walk you through the rest. You have a good timing light.
     
  5. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    You tube has videos on how to use a timing light. Once you do it you will be surprised on how easy it is.
     
  6. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    Sounds like from what you are saying, the timing is super retarded.
    At what RPM are you seeing only 17.4-18 degrees advance?
     
  7. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    That is at his 850 RPM idle speed. That 1111335 distributor he is using has 30-34* of mechanical advance. He is over advanced, and the vacuum advance just adds to that.
     
  8. 69_GS_400

    69_GS_400 Well-Known Member

    I’m planning on working on the timing in the next couple days if everything works out. Thanks for all your help guys. I appreciate you getting my in the right direction Larry. I may have to order the parts that you recommended. I’m determined to get this thing running to the best of its ability and soak up as much knowledge along the way. I’ll let you guys know an update soon.
     
  9. 69_GS_400

    69_GS_400 Well-Known Member

    Update. Still having troubles with the car heating up. I don’t get the car out every year so that is why I’m giving sporadic updates.

    Initial timing was reduced to 6 or 8 degrees.
    I have the vacuum advance hooked back up.
    My car still creeps on HOt days. 80+ degrees and jumps around from stop to go. When moving it goes slowly back down.

    So you don’t have to back log into the thread. It was too far advanced. I bought a big boy radiator from DeWitts 1.25” tubing. Stock distributor. I Do have functioning factory A/c which seems to make it worse on a hot day. I believe I’d have to look back on my build I had bought a TA hi volume water pump but not 100%. Thermostat is 170

    So how do I go about fixing this ongoing issue?
    Should I buy a new hi volume water pump, 1 big electric fan from DeWitts or dual 2”, what thermostat and brand?, As well as another new fan clutch if I keep it mechanical?

    The car is a street car, I could car less about racing it maybe hop on the highway shortly car.

    I do still get hot starts every so often. The car has not been driving much other then moved around a bit in the last 2-3 years.
     
  10. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Timing and AF ratios verified, regular 7 blade clutch fan with proper shroud, Cold Case aluminum radiator # 359-GMA42A, FlowCooler 1617 water pump, Robertshaw 160 degree thermostat, intact front cover surface, AC crank pulley set and clean water jackets, and that engine will never overheat again.
     
  11. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    My car has a temp sensor in the air cleaner, and if the temp creeps up, the idle speed increases to enhance idle cooling. I don't have an aluminum radiator, but this works perfectly when idling to keep the cooling system where it should be (ie 195 degrees).

    It came this way from the factory in 1968. If my memory is correct the sensor is the same one that closes the air cleaner flap when the car is cold.
     
  12. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    The sensor your referring to is in the water jacket in the intake manifold. It adds timing to increase idle speed.
     
    Max Damage likes this.
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Retarding timing will heat the car up at idle. Advancing the initial timing will help not hurt. Vacuum advance hooked to ported or manifold vacuum? Hooking it to ported vacuum will not help at all. You may need to rework your factory distributor depending on what year it was from.

    AFAIK, there is no such thing as a 170* thermostat, 160-180-195 are the most available stats.

    All you need is a good fan shroud and the stock fan/clutch. It does the job on my engine.
     
    john.schaefer77 likes this.
  14. Stevem

    Stevem Well-Known Member

    There’s a distinct difference between engine temperature and coolant temperature!

    Assuming you have the needed water pump pulley for a ac car then Instead of blowing money on a ton of different parts and loosing out on summer time cruising fun I would blow $100 bucks on 2 gallons of Even’s brand coolant.
     
  15. Max Damage

    Max Damage I'm working on it!

    Right Mark, thanks for jogging my memory.

    It’s the ported vacuum switch at the front of the intake that controls this.
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  16. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    Seems counter-productive.

    As asked already: "Hooked back up" to WHAT? Manifold vacuum? Ported vacuum? Solenoid-controlled vacuum? Thermovacuum switch?

    Is your "6 or 8 degrees" of initial timing WITH or WITHOUT the vacuum advance connected?

    Does the vacuum advance WORK? How do you know? How many degrees of advance does it produce? What vacuum level does it start advancing, and what vacuum level is needed for max advance?

    Suggests lack of airflow. The "rule of thumb" is that overheating while stopped, or at low-speed is lack of airflow. Overheating at high speed is lack of coolant flow. I have found that to be not true in all cases.

    What fan is bolted to that fan clutch? How many blades? What diameter? What is the gap between the end of the blades and the fan shroud? What is the blade pitch? Is the fan installed backwards? Is it approximately 1/2 in the fan shroud, 1/2 out of the fan shroud? (1/3 in, 2/3 out may be even better.)

    Too far advanced WHEN? What RPM? Under what load? What vehicle speed?

    Suggests an aluminum radiator. Single row? Two row? More?

    What is the antifreeze concentration? Any other chemicals--sealers, stop-leaks, Magic Pixie Dust, water-pump lubes mixed-into the coolant?

    I have the sense you have NO IDEA what the advance curve is. Time to find out.
    What RPM does the centrifugal advance start?
    How many degrees of centrifugal advance does the distributor have?
    What RPM is needed for maximum advance?
    Is the curve between start and max advance smooth, or abrupt at some point?
    Does the mechanism stick? Always returns to zero advance, weights have some lube? Weight pivot holes not ovalled, pivot pins not worn-out?

    Condenser plugged with leaves, bugs, and sparrows? Fins folded-over?

    What is the high-side A/C pressure on a hot day?

    Time to find out.

    As said...seems unlikely.

    Start by answering all the questions, not just the easy ones.

    Do you already have a high-volume water pump?

    What is the pulley ratio from crankshaft pulley to water-pump pulley?

    Do the belt(s) fit the grooves properly?

    Only if you want to make things worse.

    Is there something wrong with your existing thermostat?
    Is there something wrong with your fan clutch?
    Have you tested either one?


    Any chance the carburetion is overly-lean, especially at the RPM/Load that you have overheating issues? Have you ever adjusted the idle mixture screws for best vacuum, and then lean-dropped them just a bit?




    DIAGNOSE before replacing parts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2023
    69_GS_400 likes this.
  17. 69_GS_400

    69_GS_400 Well-Known Member

    I do have a solenoid that kicks on only when my AC is running that kicks up the idle. This has been a long going issue.
    I started with it when I re did the entire drivetrain. I put more money then it probably needed at it.

    Running the a/c did make it worse until I got the solenoid to kick the idol up.

    I have the correct fan and correct shroud.
    Vacuum was hooked to the port
    I have the stock distributor that was recurved (does heavier weights sound right) as well.

    water temp on an 80+ degree day will rise to 200-210. On a 70 degree day it will run at 180• all day. But I still will get hot starts here and there.
     
  18. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    200/210 isn’t hot with AC on
     
    chrisg and Ken Mild like this.
  19. 69_GS_400

    69_GS_400 Well-Known Member

    Let me get back to you on some of that
    Either I’m using the wrong verbiage or did not understand Larry correctly. I thought the timing was way to far out. To back it down.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Schurkey

    Schurkey Silver Level contributor

    That kinda depends on the thermostat rating.

    If he genuinely has a "170" thermostat, the 'stat has LOST CONTROL of the temperature by 190+.
     
    Mark Demko likes this.

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