Challenging Driveshaft Removal

Discussion in 'Got gears?' started by 73 Stage-1, Dec 5, 2022.

  1. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    Like these? :confused:

    2023-01-10 Mustang Roller Skate.jpg


    Like some (many?) of us, we do things that don’t always work out as planned. I picked up a mid-rise lift about three years ago, as I have many under car projects – on the Buick, Mustang and the daily drivers and an eight-foot ceiling. It came with the needed ramps, as I have low cars and it works great, except for the first time I lifted the Buick it left a small crack in the floor. I use it with lighter things now and work around/over it with the GS.

    Agree! And, I have my (longtime not current) A&Ps… spent some time overhauling aircraft wheels and brake discs, drilling out brake pad rivets, etc.

    I haven’t messed with the carrier (or shims), so far just all from the yoke side. I have a set of three click type torque wrenches from 40 to 200 in lbs, / 15 to 100 ft lbs, / 30 ft lbs - 200 ft lbs. so I’ll need to pick up a beam type, or a low range digital in lb one this weekend and report back!
     
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  2. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Yes those type of rollers are what I was thinking may help.
     
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  3. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    I say that to the wife all the time:p:p:p
     
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  4. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    Surprised that took so long :D
     
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  5. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    It’s been a minute, as the kids say... Life keeps getting between me and the garage.

    I bought a low range torque screwdriver that I was mistakenly under the impression would “slip” when it got to the desired set point, but instead, has a hard click like a standard torque wrench. :rolleyes: So, while I wait for the inch-pound dial torque wrench to get here... I wanted to run my thoughts by you all after re-reading the (much appreciated) comments and suggestions to this point.

    I have the shortened and balanced driveshaft with two new Spicer joints (and straps).
    New outer pinion bearing.
    I picked up two crush sleeves - one matches the original one and one from Motive Gear (and new nut).
    I picked up a “ready sleeve” to take care of the groove in the yoke

    I know this isn’t ideal, but to get the car on the ground and rolling I plan on:
    • Installing the new crush sleeve, outer bearing, yoke and nut.
    • Sneak up to 15-16 inch-pounds (maybe overthinking it a bit, but splitting the spec difference between old and new bearings).
    • Then re-measure backlash following the instructions above.

    And then, re-evaluate where I am...
    Am I missing anything?

    2023-01-29 Buick GS Crush Sleeves.jpg

    2023-01-29 Buick GS Rear Yoke and Sleeve.jpg
     
  6. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    Life sure can get in the way sometimes.

    New crush sleeve, outer pinion bearing, new seal is in, and the new lock nut is on. I followed all y'all's advice (rtv on the outside of the seal - white thread sealant on the splines, red loctite, etc) and have 35 in-lbs of rotating torque (total assembly). I stopped tightening the nut about 65 ft lbs and checked, and that's where it was. A little tighter than I was aiming for, but here we are.

    The good news is the backlash I experienced before is about nil. I haven't measured it yet, though. Rotating the yoke feels nice and smooth in the forward direction, but feels notchy when I rotate it in the reverse direction. I get 30 in-lbs rotating torque in reverse. This is without fluid.

    I did all this with the understanding of needing to take it apart again, but what would make the reverse rotation not smooth?

    Thanks, as always!

    Dave


    73 GS Service Manual Page 4B 47.jpg
     
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Good job! I want to speculate about why it’s notchy feeling in reverse however I will wait for the experts to chime in.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
  8. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    Are the pinion bearings completely dry or do they have any of the packing oil on them? I aim for 17-18inch/lbs of preload/drag on the pinion. All that is done before the carrier goes in.
     
  9. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    Thank you.

    Mostly dry - it's been open for almost three months and I cleaned what I could with brake clean after it drained. I didn't take the carrier out, just replaced the outer pinion bearing - which I saturated with fresh rear end lube before I installed it. And that's why I was using the higher drag preload spec.
     
  10. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    You replaced the outer bearing,but not the race?
     
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  11. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    ??? Wow, That is some feet... That outer bearing is still a press fit bearing...So either that bearing got honed out by years of torquing around or you had to do some serious prying and surgery ... lol. ???
    WHY was the bearing replaced? If it was bad...Do you not think the race is bad also it was running on?

    Jim
    JD
     
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  12. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    How’d you do that?
     
  13. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    So yes, perhaps I have the inner and outer named backwards? The smaller bearing on the yoke side.

    As for putting a new bearing in with an old race, yes - I am sure at least one of my old A&P instructors just felt a disturbance in the force.

    At this point, it's academic. and practice. I am putting it back together to get the car to roll under it's own power so I can complete other projects in the garage. I will then revisit. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've never messed with setting up a rear before, I just changed 9" pumpkins as needed. Since I went ahead and bought the tools (0-75 in-lb dial torque wrench, yoke holder, etc) I figured this would be good practice. I picked up two crush sleeves thinking ahead.

    I appreciate the conversation as I learn.
     
  14. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    Inner is the big one which there is NO WAY your getting that one out of the housing with out a total disassemble.
    The outer is the small one under the yoke. under the seal
     
  15. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    Yep, that's the one. Took a bit of wiggling, but out it came. Definitely didn't feel pressed on. New one slid on, with just a couple of taps with a brass punch and dense rubber mallet.
    I'm going to go measure the old bearing ID in a bit, and check to see if it's scored.
     
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  16. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    I think we're getting somewhere. The Timken M88048 bearing ID bore diameter is listed as 1.3125 inches. I measured the old one very carefully, with dial and digital calipers, as well as with an inside snap gauge (my inside mic doesn't go this small).
    I measure 1.312. I haven't been able to find the pinion shaft diameter for the smaller end. I see some discoloration (from heat?) but don't see any signs of it spinning, but it certainly has taken a beating.
    If the smaller diameter end of the pinion shaft is worn, I bet all sorts of bad things show up.

    7 GS Old Pinion Bearing-2.jpg

    7 GS Old Pinion Bearing-1.jpg
     
    sean Buick 76 likes this.
  17. monzaz

    monzaz Jim

    had to have spun to make the marks on the race from the yoke. ...THEY yoke sure is not going to spin on the pinion....lol. :) Jim
    only thing that can spin is the bearing race to create that score mark where the part numbers are stamped in .
    This is just logical thinking here.
    How deep is the scaring on that race on the bearing
     
  18. 73 Stage-1

    73 Stage-1 Dave

    The photo make it look worse than it is. I can feel it with my fingernail, but it doesn't get caught - just feels unsmooth (if I can make up a word).

    73 GS Old Pinion Bearing-3.jpg
     
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  19. BrianTrick

    BrianTrick Brian Trick

    What do the rollers and the surface of the race look like?
     
  20. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    It was spinning.
    That’s the ONLY way those swipe marks got on the race.
    I replaced the pinion bearing ( inner/ outer along with races) on my 2001 Safari van years ago, 185000 miles.
    The only wear were the bearings (rollers) and the race, which caused the rumbling starting at low speeds.
    The rumbling from bearing noise is from the rollers riding over the pock marked race, like a bare steel wheel rolling over a road full of chuck holes.
     

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