We had a meeting in CAL the last week of May. Since then I have been going over the drawings, there are a few things that need some attention to make this block more users friendly. A lot of time is being spent in the cam shaft sector of the block. I am looking to have this block accept stock cams out of the gate with material in place to change things around. A new cam core looks to be on the horizon along with a new cylinder head cartoon being sketched and placed on top of the block drawing. Input from a customer level is welcome. Mike
Mike, It is truely exciting to hear updates on this project. Some basic questions that I have would be how much different would this block be than a stock block? Surely you have addressed the oiling, maybe cooling, of coarse the crank area. Is it going to be friendly for putting our existing parts on/in it? I for one like the idea of a roller cam, trigger provision for ignition.
Build it like a tank! What's Pro Mod up now, 3000HP? Build for the future! Make the decks thick enough so they can be cut to reduce the rod length. (Ric Crawford, where are you?) Does the design of the block lend itself to deeper skirts and cross bolted mains? Come out with a set of heads for it that you can lose a golf ball in the ports to make the HP that the block will be capable of supporting! (not as big of a deal for me with boost, but the NA guys will need it) Reduced diameter mains like the Bulldog. It would be nice if one crank fit both blocks. Bosses on the front of the block for mounting an engine plate. Did I mention build it like a tank? :laugh:
I like the deep skirt / cross bolted mains idea. Provision for a roller cam / increased lifter and cam journal dia. Reduced main journal diameter. Priority main oiling of course. How about offering two different deck heights- one stock, and one shortened. Is that possible? I think it's great that TA is coming out with this 455 block, but the bulldog blocks are slowly being delivered now, and there are how many people that REALLY need them? Not all that many, I would guess. I really think TA is missing the boat by not jumping on the 350 parts. There is a whole market waiting to happen there, and good parts are very badly needed. If there was an aftermarket 350 block that could accept a big overbore, good aluminum heads, and a good single plane intake, I think you would see a lot more people going that route. With all the forced induction knowledge out there in the V-6 community, there would likely be a lot of crossovers going to a small block Buick with turbos. Don't forget about all the jeep 350 people too. All I'm saying is that if I had my choice, I would go SBB with forced induction. There is a market waiting to explode there, and I'm shocked that TA wouldn't be all over that. We can't even get a decent set of rods or forged pistons for the 350... and that is truly a shame, considering the fact that the stock heads will flow right up there with the iron big block heads, and the blocks are more stable for high hp applications. ________ CODEINE REHAB ADVICE
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how much sense it makes to offer a V6 block, a 350 block and a 455 block. If the 350 block could be made by "adding" 2 cylinders to the V6 design, then most of the work would be done for not much more money (compared to starting from scratch). Same with the cylinder heads (kinda-sorta). If the 455 could be made with deep skirts would there be much of a difference between the 350 and 455? o No: The bottom line is, if's there is a market, go for it! :TU:
I really think TA is missing the boat by not jumping on the 350 parts. There is a whole market waiting to happen there, and good parts are very badly needed. If there was an aftermarket 350 block that could accept a big overbore, good aluminum heads, and a good single plane intake, I think you would see a lot more people going that route. With all the forced induction knowledge out there in the V-6 community, there would likely be a lot of crossovers going to a small block Buick with turbos. Don't forget about all the jeep 350 people too. All I'm saying is that if I had my choice, I would go SBB with forced induction. There is a market waiting to explode there, and I'm shocked that TA wouldn't be all over that. We can't even get a decent set of rods or forged pistons for the 350... and that is truly a shame, considering the fact that the stock heads will flow right up there with the iron big block heads, and the blocks are more stable for high hp applications.[/QUOTE] now there's a novel idea. an untouched, ignored market waiting to spend their money on small block buick parts. now, why didn't i think of that.................well,, it's back to adapting small block mopar parts to the 350. john sbb 11.88 and going down :grin:
Steve, Where the heck did you get that picture!! Talk about beautiful! It looks like a short-deck small block Chevy (corporate) SB2.2, right? Is that a Cup block or Comp Elim.? Way cool. :bglasses:
Aluminum.... I like the idea of seeing more race parts for the 455 so bring it on. Shorter deck, smaller mains, better oiling, 6th head bolt, larger cam base circle all works for me. :TU: I too think that someone is missing the boat on the 350 stuff. The block can clearly take more abuse with a much simpler build. But without off the shelf parts it's too much hassle to build a race 350. It would be nice not to have to worry about oiling, head gaskets, block and lifter girdles. Plus there is nothing worse than porting iron heads to try and make the power so it is just easier to go to a 455. Bill M. was on the right track with his blow-thru 1000+hp 350. Now where are the parts number so someone can buy and build another one. uzzled:
It's really a good thing, in my opinion, to see any vendor coming out w/ something like this aluminum 455 block. I think if there isn't a very huge market out there now(which there is a market, wether it's big or small, who truly does know?) for an aluminum 455 block, I am sure there will become one, once people start buying these blocks and getting good results from them, then others shall catch on and then it will finally start to build a market. I know that I for one will want one in the future for a build of mine that I have planned, and an Aluminum 455 Block is a necessity. Nothing else will do, so I do hope that the block will sell good so by the time I can actually afford one, I will get the chance to buy one. As for the 350/V6 ideas, I think if T/A, or any Buick vendor were to work on getting parts/blocks available for 350's/v6's, then I agree, as there is already a big market in that section. :Smarty: And I mean, there is a huge demand for 455 parts/and blocks too...heck, with the poll I posted over on the bench about which Buick mill is your motor of choice, the results prove right there, that the 455 market is a HUGE one(most likely the HUGEST by far!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), and w/ the block, I am sure it will make it just "that much more". :TU:
I like the Cam options,I also like the extra Headbolt idea. -Bolt holes on the front for a Motoplate -Larger Lifter capability -DEFINATELY a shorter Deck capability I *was* all about smaller mains,I'd still like to see that but not as high on my list after I saw this Engine.......3.250 mains and 8000+ RPM on a regular basis,With one carb this would put me right where I need to be. http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=450485
So far all your ideas are on my want list. Very busy drawing when all options are trying to be put in play. Our block already will have more options than what has been discussed so far on this thread. I do like all your input. 350 folks, I'm paying attention. Mike
mike, ok, now that we got your attention for the sbb.....intake, heads or block first ???? we have the test mule for them. :grin: now if you have four defective v6 aluminum heads that can be cut up and rewelded into 350 heads. i'll take that. got my bridgeport and lathe ready. :grin: john
WOW, I am a Big T/A fan, and have known Mike for many years, this is a huge undertaking, and am pleased to see that the OWNER of a Co. is here to ask questions and input from it's customers and potential customers. Gang, as You saw the threads of the Bulldog block fiasco. I Find it hard to belive DB did not throw in the towell, you simply cannot afford to go wrong on something this complex, measure twice cut once!!!!. It has come to be a reality and is now being tested, Bobb Makkley has made some nice passes in a supercharged configuration. Mike From T/A Best of Luck to you, your efforts and commitments to the Buick Performance community are VERY much appreciated, your dedication over the years helping us go faster and live longer are what make us come back for more and better parts from your Company. ! Regards, Bruce Hunter Indy June 28th -July 1st BPG Salem envent August 10- 13th!! Be there!!!!
Since this is being built on paper first the number 1 issue would be oiling. And the second thing is going to be price. The block would have to come in some were around $5,000-$6,000 retail. This is based on the fact that metal prices are jumping. I don,t know if it would be feasible to have a stock version and race version. The oiling system should be on the order of priority main oiling on both street and race and i would look into using the oil pump for wet sump that is used on the 3800 V6 engine. Have provision for dry sump i like the cross bolted mains they work real good on the LS1 and 4.6 ford engines. A race version i would lay out the lifter bores for .904 lifters and also for a new head design that had a port lay out of ex. int. ex. int so it could use five head bolts or studs. Make the cam tunnel on both blocks so it has an oil groove in it like the SBC and also have the ability to go up to a 65mm core with roller cam bearings. As far as water jackets i would do like world dose and expand them out on the sides to try and get even cooling around the cylinders so you don,t sacrifice cylinder wall thickness. The one thing i would look close in to is maybe have the block race version to accept the Darton MID sleeve system.
As far as the 350 pistons go i posted a poll about what people were looking for and got little response. I talked to a major piston manufacture and had a agreement on price and could have brought them to market for just at or about $600.00.
IMO, 2 of the best designed engines currently available are the Series II Buick 3800 and the LSx series engines. Both are very similar to each other, and both have excellent design features!! :Smarty: Short of patent infringement, I would copy the features on those engines as much as possible. Deep skirting, cross bolted mains, front mounted gerotor style oil pump, etc. Modular aluminum oil pan would be nice also. RE: the buick 350"......I realize there are many parts that need to materialize LONG before a block does(heads, intakes, rods, etc) - but, it would be nice to see an aftermarket block based as much as possible on the SII engine. Personally, I'd even like to see heads based on the symmetrical port arrangement of the SII heads. Head wise for the 350"......the LSx heads are the 'standard' by which most any other head should be compared. We would do quite well with a similar design/port arrangement. I have all the confidence in the world that whatever you come out with Mike, it will be a top quality product!! :TU:
