350 Junk Yard Roller Cam and Single Plane....Calling Burton Machine.

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by Lightningbird, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Lightningbird

    Lightningbird Well-Known Member

    I know there are a few here that has seen the thread on www.turbobuick.com highlighting a cheap roller cam conversion using a 2.8-3.4 chevrolet V6 roller lifter in a older Buick V6 that was not originally equipped with a roller cam from the factory. The intake spider and dogbones from a newer Buick V6 FWD was employed with some quick ingenuity to adapt it to the older block.

    That thread has a huge following and like a bizillion posts, so I can only imagine eye balls peeled and awaiting the next bit of information. I believe it was Snowblind that actually turned me onto this post and man it was some reading since it was continued in a whole other post.

    The big take away from that post is that for the SBB crowd, our engine never came with a roller cam to begin with so we never had any parts to scavenge to create anything like this, but we can actually use this idea and run with our own.

    TA is now selling roller cams for the 350, Woo Hoo!!! The cam is not so bad (price wise), but the cost and noise from the lifters.....they leave you speechless. Enter the factory GM 3.1 liter lifter. Most likely the best part of the 3.1. They will fit in there nonchalantly just like the V6 turbo crowd was employing them and the dog bones from a Factory Roller Cam SBC or V6 Buick, but holding the dog bones down is a real problem. The SBB was never built with factory roller cam so a factory spider to retain the lifters is outta the question.

    I think that I have solved the issue. A few years ago Hector (Screen Name: Hectic) built a single plane intake manifold (or updated dual plane, I cannot remember now) using the base of a 350 Aluminum Intake and grafting a 340 Mopar intake manifold in place of the dated TA piece. He did this by grinding off the existing TA Dual plane and just using the last 1/2" of intake manifold.

    This gave me an idea. I had seen guys use SBC intakes on a SBB using wooden spacers to adapt the head to the intake. Well, how about an aluminum 6 piece SBB single plane/dual plane/six pack/dual quad/individual runner intake manifold.

    Consisting of two 1/2"-3/4" (really whatever it needs) head to intake adapters that have a bottom lip perpendicular and level to the lifter valley block cast portions at the front and rear of the block (See Red Arrows). These areas give you an area to drill and tap for a lifter valley pan similar to a nailhead or LS series engine. The aluminum adapters would also have long fingers that are part of the adapter that reach into the lifter valley (see green fingers on picture). These fingers will hold the dog bones in place for a roller camshaft using factory Junk Yard lifters. The ends of the fingers would have the same spider steel retainer ends to hold the dogbones in place. This would allow for movement and pressure without issues due to machining of the cylinder heads or the block.

    [​IMG]

    With the adapters bolted securely to the heads and the fingers holding the dog bones, a lifter valley pan is bolted to the level extensions that run the length of the adapter perpendicular to the red arrowed block castings.
    Fabricated water crossover tubes front and rear (like the ones used on the X-factor) are used to pass water from the intake to the heads while housing the thermostat and mounting the top radiator hose.
    The last piece is the Chevrolet Small Block intake manifold. Essentially any SBC intake could be used and similar to Hector's design (only opposite) we whittle away all the water crossover areas, base and the parts not needed. This would allow for almost infinite intake manifolds. I especially like the idea of a Hilborn Mechanical Fuel Injection System.
    So as you can see the intake adapters work two fold providing you with tons of intake possibilities and a roller cam.
    Now.....Mark Burton is this a possibility?? Can you machine something similar to this and make it work? I know we had discussed the intake adaption before, but it was not to this level and No one really tried it.

    What do you think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  2. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    ''Consisting of two 1/2"-3/4" (really whatever it needs) head to intake adapters that have a bottom lip perpendicular and level to the lifter valley block cast portions''

    how about 4'' thick. start buying that much material and machining the runners is costly.
     
  3. Lightningbird

    Lightningbird Well-Known Member

    How about 2" cause there is two of them and they can be cast aluminum. It's not that expensive. I used to cast aluminum parts in high school shop class made of old lawn mower engines. A simple mold is easy to make. We are not talking anything extreme here, there is no reason. It can be cast and machined out. Not too difficult nor expensive.

    Mark, I really would like your thoughts on this..........
     
  4. Justa350

    Justa350 I'm BACK!

    I say, very do-able. The mold would be simple, as you wouldonly need one mold. One mold would make an adapter that would work on either head. A sheet metal piece to cover the lifet valley, and SBC intakes should be able to bolt on.

    I think it could be dimensionally designed and prototyped in plastic, which will machine fast and easy, and is cheap. The casting mold could be taken from the plastic prototype.

    Let's do one!
     
  5. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    i have/did a chevy s/p intake that i modified to 90 degree and it would take 3-4'' of spacer to make a straight run into the heads. you can lower it, but the intake angle changes a lot.
     
  6. BuickRacer69

    BuickRacer69 1320, Mark of the Beast

    I would be very interested. I was just about to start hacking up my TA Stage 1 intake to try to inprove it some. I will be watch this.
     
  7. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Heavily ported the TA intake has made well over 500 hp NA however the same ingine with a singleplane intake woke up in the higher rpms.

    The custom (340 Mopar E-brock air gap, a ta intake) by Hector:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    http://www.buickperformancegroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6012
     
  8. Lightningbird

    Lightningbird Well-Known Member

    If you are down I will assist "ANY" way I can. Mark, PM me if you are serious.
     
  9. BuickRacer69

    BuickRacer69 1320, Mark of the Beast

    I would think about doing something like that if I was going to keep my small block forever. I have plans for a big block not to far in the future. I do not want to spend the $1000 it will cost to make something like that work and never be able to sell it. I would be more that happy to spend a few hundred bucks on something that will let me run a different intake on my 350. I think my best bet would be loving up my TA intake. I would love a single plane though, my dual plane really hurts my upper end. Plus I would really like a single plane for when I hang the bottle on it. The winter is not over yet and im getting restless. I will see what comes from all this.
     
  10. Lightningbird

    Lightningbird Well-Known Member

    First, you are telling me "NO", why waste my money when I could go, "PUKE" Big Block. Read the sign on the door. The big block posting section is a few more up. Gotcha....duly noted, have a nice day.

    Second, you start coming around to the idea of a single plane fitting and would like to flog your SBB with a single plane intake and some spray to see how it will really run....... Cool, so would everyone reading this post. Anyone can put a BBB in their car.
    We are attempting to make a cast, mass produced intake adapter. It would be no where in the vicinity of a grand. We are not talking mega machining crazy piece. We are talking a few lumps of cast aluminum, with room to port that will fit any SBC intake, Tunnel Ram and hilborn mechanical FI included. You would still need to purchase a SBC intake but this gives you a little leeway to chose something besides just a dual plane TA and have the option of a roller cam for significantly cheaper. I see nothing wrong with this.

    Oh, and hopefully by spring you could get that chance to flog your SBB with a single plane intake manifold. I'm not gonna put a time line on it, but hell. It's an adapter, not brain surgery, how long do you think it will take?
     
  11. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    1)mopar intake is 1/2'' longer than the sbb. it needs adapter plates 1'' thick. need to cut angles(84* vs 90*) to match. head to head water ports dont match. need to make a t/stat housing.
    2)chevy intake is 1/4'' longer than the sbb. it needs 3-4'' of adapter plates. need to cut angles(70* vs 90*) to match. head to head water ports dont match. need to make t/stat housing.
    3)you can try to make the adapters as thin as possible, but the intake runner angle will be a sharp curve.
    4)need to make a valley pan for either intake.
    5)either intake you use, the valley rail to carb base is tall. probably will have to cut hole in hood if you use a tall air cleaner.
    6)hilborn. need to split in 1/4's. small adapter plate. valley pan needed. t/stat housing needed. not much work required.

    the info listed above is fact and what i can recall w/o pulling stuff off the shelf and setting it up again. i dont keep any of this info secret.

    been there, done that.
     
  12. BuickRacer69

    BuickRacer69 1320, Mark of the Beast

    You took that way out of line. I have a buick 350 in my car which I race. It is the second buick 350 that has been in it. I was talking about cutting up a TA intake and a 340 Mopar intake to make one. I think I am going to do it. It would not be cheap but I think it will be worth it. When I said I was going to put a big block in my car I meant a big block buick, not a chevy. I do not know what most of the people in this small block section get so uptight about the words "big block". Its still a buick at the end of the day. If any of us were going to do the easy thing we would build a chevelle, not a buick.


     
    JimRamsey likes this.
  13. Nothingface5384

    Nothingface5384 Detail To Oil - Car Care

    truthfully, i dont mind what anyone puts in there car...it could be a lil turbo i4..i wouldnt care, whatever makes the owner happy :TU:
     
  14. Lightningbird

    Lightningbird Well-Known Member

    Johnny, thanks for the info. I believe you posted similar info when we discussed this last time. When you say 4" thick adapters for the SBC, you cannot possibly mean 4" each adapter, that would mean there is a 8" difference between the intake manifolds. I know the deck is about .6" higher on the Buick, but that does not constitute 8" difference. Are you saying, 8" difference or is that a total 4" difference? Please clarify since 8" total is almost unbelievable.

    Buick Racer....sorry to pounce, I just get sick of the BBB dudes coming over to the SBB post talking trash. The BBB has it's own dedicated board as does the SBB. I never go to the BBB board and talk trash about how the BBB parts are expensive. I certainly did not want any of it on a post about getting an intake adapter for the 350 going.
     
  15. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    each side would require 3-4'' adapter plate. you can go smaller, but the angle of the dangle becomes a problem.

    i go out and look at all sorts of stuff and buy so we maybe can use on the sbb's. if it can be built reasonably, i will and test it. got a garage full of oddball ****. crazy, aint it.
     
  16. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    Why not just order one of these?

    [​IMG]
     
  17. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    your right sean. why mess with the chevy stuff.
     
  18. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    For you, someone DOES have the machinework background the Mopar intake is the better option.

    Although Sonny Seal did use the SBC tunnel ram on his 11 second NA 350 so it is possible but certainly not for most of us... Thanks for highlighting exactly what it takes to build a hybrid intake. Another example is Hectors intake I posted above, he has a background and tools to make this possible. I know he spent a TON of time building his as you well know Johnny!
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  19. sean Buick 76

    sean Buick 76 Buick Nut

    So why not try to do this project to make a Mopar intake fit the 350 since it is so much closer to the Buick 350?
     
  20. gsjohnny1

    gsjohnny1 Well-Known Member

    one damn drink and i cant sign in right. sheesh.

    i have one smaller mopar version cut up. just have to finish it. but i have my s/c now. most of my time will be dedicated to building that. btw, where are all the machinists? mark and i the only ones??
     

Share This Page