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  1. #1
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    Default Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Spent a little time evaluating a couple of Rover V8 single plane intake
    manifolds on Dave McLain's flow bench in Cuba, Missouri. I wanted to
    know which of the intakes would flow best when bolted to my 1964 Buick
    300 aluminum heads. The heads are ported and use larger Stage 1 Buick
    V6 intake and exhaust valves (1.775" head diameter for the intake and
    1.5" for the exhaust):

    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/alb...s_chambers_001
    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/alb...s_intake_ports
    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/alb...exhaust_ports2

    The two intakes tested were a Huffaker:

    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album13/Huffaker_front
    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album13/Huffaker_side

    and a Willpower:

    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album13/Willpower_1
    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/album13/Willpower_2

    Note the Willpower intake pictured is not the actual intake tested. I've
    not yet taken pitures of the intake we tested but it differs from the one
    pictured in that it has EFI injectors bungs in each port but the injectors
    were not installed for these tests. The Huffaker has larger ports which
    better match the Buick 300 heads:

    http://www.bacomatic.org/gallery/alb...Huffaker_ports

    The Willpower has smaller Rover-sized ports but has a better radius on
    the end runners than the Huffaker. An end port and a center port of the
    head were first flowed without an intake attached to get a baseline, then
    flowed with the intake bolted in place. Also, a Holley 780 carb body
    with the throttle plates at full open was bolted to the intake to
    represent the pressure drop across a carb or fuel injection throttle body.
    I'll be using an EFI throttle body later but have not purchased it yet.
    When the heads were ported, they were tested on a Superflow bench at a
    28" H2O pressure drop. The head had a clayed intake radius but no exhaust
    pipe stub was used on the exhaust. Those numbers are shown in the 2nd and
    3rd columns. The 4th and 5th columns are the same head flowed on Dave's
    bench which has a 10" H2O pressure drop. The numbers were converted
    mathematically to 28" to be on a consistent basis. Note the numbers are
    somewhat lower than those of the 28" bench. We're not sure if this due
    in part to the conversion or is simply bench-to-bench variation. In any
    case, it doesn't influence the results of the intake manifold tests.
    On both single plane intakes, the center runners are short and straight
    while the end runners are long and curved, so one center port and one end
    port were tested. The Huffaker was bolted to the head and tested first,
    followed by the Willpower. The results are shown below and are best
    viewed in a non-proportional font like courier:

    Valve Buick 300 Ported Buick 300 Same head with Same head with
    Lift 1964 head on McLain's Huffaker intake Willpower intake
    (inch) aluminum flow bench center runner center runner
    ported 10" numbers
    Int Exh converted to 28" CFM % of CFM % of
    1.775" 1.5" Int Exh bare bare
    1.775" 1.5" head head
    Int Exh
    center
    port

    0.050 -- -- 26.3 22.6 26.1 99.2 27.6 104.9
    0.100 66 47 56.3 51.6 55.1 97.9 56.4 100.2
    0.150 99 82 86.8 75.0 87.8 101.1 89.0 102.5
    0.200 129 104 115.1 98.4 117.2 101.8 119.1 103.5
    0.250 155 119 140.4 114.1 141.4 100.7 142.8 101.7
    0.300 174 130 158.1 125.4 160.6 101.5 160.0 101.2
    0.350 187 139 171.7 134.4 169.9 98.9 167.9 98.0
    0.400 191 146 179.8 140.2 170.5 94.8 172.2 95.8
    0.450 194 150 181.3 143.2 172.6 95.2 174.3 96.1
    0.500 196 152 182.1 144.3 173.9 95.5 175.3 96.2

    Valve Buick 300 Ported Buick 300 Same head with Same head with
    Lift 1964 head on McLain's Huffaker intake Willpower intake
    (inch) aluminum flow bench end runner end runner
    ported 10" numbers
    Int Exh converted to 28" CFM % of CFM % of
    1.775" 1.5" 1.775" 1.5" bare bare
    end head head
    port

    0.050 -- -- 25.5 22.6 26.8 105.9 26.9 105.5
    0.100 66 47 55.0 51.6 56.6 102.9 55.4 100.7
    0.150 99 82 87.0 75.0 88.2 101.4 88.6 101.8
    0.200 129 104 116.9 98.4 114.1 97.6 119.8 102.5
    0.250 155 119 143.4 114.1 132.5 92.4 144.6 100.8
    0.300 174 130 157.8 125.4 146.5 92.8 164.8 104.4
    0.350 187 139 171.6 134.4 155.6 90.7 173.3 101.0
    0.400 191 146 178.3 140.2 156.9 88.0 175.0 98.1
    0.450 194 150 180.8 143.2 156.6 86.6 176.0 97.3
    0.500 196 152 182.9 144.3 157.6 86.2 175.3 95.8

    Despite the smaller runners, the Willpower is the better flowing manifold.
    The center ports on both intakes are quite close to the head flow but
    the Huffaker end ports are not as good. I think it would be worthwhile to
    port just the ends of the Huffaker intake end runners with a better radius
    to see if the flow loss could be recovered. There's a slight drop off in
    flow as lift increases on the Willpower intake that may be due to the small
    port size. The Willpower could be ported to a larger size but given how
    close the intake is to the bare head flow, it's probably not worth the
    trouble. The worst flows are at 96%. As a point of comparison, we've
    recently flow tested a couple of (non-Rover) dual plane intake manifolds
    and they were in the mid seventy % flow range (unported).

    The exhaust-to-intake flow ratio on these heads is excellent. Dave thought
    a bit larger itake valve, at the expense of exhaust valve size, might make
    more power if it were practical. During our tests, a 4" diameter tube was
    used to simulate the effects of the cylinder wall. To see if shrouding
    might be a problem, the tube was moved around (closer to the valve) but
    little effect was noted.

    Dan Jones

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    400

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Good stuff, Dan. Thanks for continuing to give us numbers to archive!
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maplewood, MN
    Posts
    110

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    HI Dan.. Are the willpower intakes the same as what wildcat sells? Where are they available?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    St, Louis, MO
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    > Are the willpower intakes the same as what wildcat sells?

    I'm told that is the case. They look the same in the pictures.

    > Where are they available?

    Bill Laney makes them in Australia. Try dropping him an email message
    at williaml@hotkey.net.au

    Dan Jones

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maplewood, MN
    Posts
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Thanks Dan.
    I have a lot to learn about these Buick/Rover motors.

    I also has some questions about the 64 Buick 300 heads. But the forum software wont let me post a link so Ill TTT it .

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Maplewood, MN
    Posts
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    I received an e-mail back from Bill Laney with some pricing
    I guess Ill have to start saving up....

  7. #7
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    St, Louis, MO
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    What's the going rate?

    Dan Jones

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maplewood, MN
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    I sent an e-mail to Bill Laney who makes the "willpower" single plane intake for the Rover V-8..

    Dear Mr Laney

    I am interested in the willpower single plane intakes for Rover V-8's. I am planning a build using 64 Buick 300 heads and a 4.6 block and offset ground crank. I also have a friend who is doing a similar build but looking into fuel injection. Do you sell your manifolds outright? I live in the USA in the state of Minnesota and the exchange rate to the British pound is not very good at present.



    This is the reply.
    BTW The Australian dollar exchanges at .88 to 1 for the US dollar. Its at an all time high and climbing. The British sterling is 2.05 to 1 !

    Dear Tony

    Yes we do sell manifolds direct to USA . Price for 4bbl Rover V8 is $AUD 625.00 + freight approx. $AUD 160.00.

    Fuel injected Rover manifold is available, set to accept Bosch injectors, fuel rail supplied (billet aluminum)

    No computer or injectors supplied with manifold price $AUD 825.00 plus freight

    Regards

    Bill Laney
    Willpower Performance

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Hey Dan,
    How well do you think the Willpower would run on an iron head 300 or 340.. keeping in mind the difference in port sizes..



    Greg

  10. #10
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    Jul 2006
    Location
    St, Louis, MO
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    73

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    > BTW The Australian dollar exchanges at .88 to 1 for the US dollar.
    > Its at an all time high and climbing.

    Ouch. It's gone up since I bought mine.

    > How well do you think the Willpower would run on an iron head 300 or 340..
    > keeping in mind the difference in port sizes..

    Better than the stock dual plane or a Huffaker and as well as my ported
    Buick 300 heads flow. At some point, the small port size will become a
    limiting factor and would need to be opened up. It would be straight-
    forward to see where intake port speed would choke.

    Dan Jones

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maplewood, MN
    Posts
    110

    Arrow Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Just a side note...
    I spoke with Ian Richardson at Wildcat and he told me that their single plane is their own design.. Not just a resold Australian Willpower intake..

    Wildcat actually makes two types of single plane manifold.
    One for the stock Rover configuration and one for the Wildcat stage II heads which are patterned off of the Buick V-6 Stage II Indy heads.

    Wildcat intake for stock Rover = $ 260 Sterling. or $537.39 + XXX shipping
    Willpower intake ********** = $ 624 Australian. or $574.38 + 147 shipping


    Custom sheetmetal is looking better all the time
    Last edited by hoffbug; 10-30-2007 at 01:08 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Minnesota
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    I just scored a Harcourt single plane from TRS in S. Australia. I got to speak to Ian Wilson directly! That was pretty cool. THey have recently had some sucess with a stroker Rover with Wildcat heads and induction. Pretty HOT TR7.

    ANYWAY. What's up with Rover/Buick strokers and guys named Ian>?? Here's a pic of the manifold:



    Here's the TRS website:

    http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au


    I'm pretty syched! BTW here's an Offy single plane on ebay I fell upon earlier this evening:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Offen...spagenameZWDVW

    You guys ever seen one like this?
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    50 miles from New Orleans
    Posts
    896

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Please pardon my ignorance, but are these manifolds, Willpower & Wildcat bolt on's for the iron Buick 300cu in engine.

    I'd like more power from mine and the only option seems to be the stock 65 4-barrel.

    Thanks for any input.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    These have all been designed for the smaller Rover/Buick 8.9" deckheight. I remember a couple guys making spacers to make these intakes work on 300 deckheight blocks. It's like a couple 1/4" spacers... I'll see if I can find the post...

    Here it is:

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=9683
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  15. #15
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    Nov 2002
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    Maplewood, MN
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulfgears View Post
    Please pardon my ignorance, but are these manifolds, Willpower & Wildcat bolt on's for the iron Buick 300cu in engine.

    I'd like more power from mine and the only option seems to be the stock 65 4-barrel.

    Thanks for any input.
    Edelbrock also makes a "Performer" dual plane for the 215. This could be another option for a bottom end torque type engine.

    Nic.. Nice score on the Harcourt!
    Used manifolds scare me .. But yours looks nice.

    It looks like it even had some bosses above the runners..
    You still going with FI? Maybe you could have those machined out for injectors..

  16. #16
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    Oct 2002
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    The Buick City flint,mi.48506
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Sean Etson
    the BuickCityPsycho
    A.K.A. buick3001964
    64 special worlds fastest 300" buick 12.52@104
    ^^^^^ car gone ,still have the powertrain
    66 Opel Kadett Wagon ( new project )
    JUST WAIT and see
    BPG#1261

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Buick City flint,mi.48506
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Sean Etson
    the BuickCityPsycho
    A.K.A. buick3001964
    64 special worlds fastest 300" buick 12.52@104
    ^^^^^ car gone ,still have the powertrain
    66 Opel Kadett Wagon ( new project )
    JUST WAIT and see
    BPG#1261

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    400

    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    I just got the intake. It is very close to fitting the Q-jet. It is off by about 100 thou in width for the secondaries. Maybe it was modified for an edelbrock carb... I will take some pix when I get the chance and post them. The tubes from the coolant ports turned out to be an intake heater. Kinda crude but functional. The floor of the intake is rounded. It looked more flat in the picture. The carb does sit right on top of the studs so it was made for some type of spread bore carb. It looks like it fits really well. That's a bit of a surprise. I have actually never heard of a single plane made for a spread bore for the SBB... Hmmmm.

    It looks like if I modify the flange a little wider to accommodate the secondaries it leaves me with just over a 1/4 inch to either side of the secondary barrels for vac sealing. Is this enough? I figure it should be. What do you guys think? It's pretty tall. That might be an optical illusion though I suppose with no heads to judge that off of.
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Nic.. Give us a shot of the underside. Im curious to see what was whipped up for the manifold heat.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Here's some pix of that intake I bought from Aus:

    Here's a pic of the intake with the Q-jet sitting on top. BTW that is the Q-jet I got off ebay. It's going to need the flange to be bushed. The throttle shafts are sloppy enough to wiggle around so I figure it's time. I'm looking forward to modifying it:



    The floor of the intake is pretty rounded. It's hard to get a good shot of that but I hope this isn't too different from what Shred was expecting. We'll see. This is also a nice close up of the flange modification for the Q-jet spread-bore. This is particularly hard to find for my engine. They just don't make them. The bottom pic is of the flange and the underside of the Q-jet. COOL!



    OH one more thing to show is the custom intake heater. It's made from a hard line taped into the rear coolant ports and covered wiht braided line for show. I'm not sure this will work well but we'll see:


    You can read in greater detail if you are interested on my Induction build page:
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894/3
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  21. #21
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    Nov 2002
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    Wow.. Someone had worked that maifold quite a bit.
    Spread bore, thermostat housing, and manifold heat. are all modifications.

    I wonder what they were running for a carb?
    Carter? Motorcraft?

  22. #22
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    Dec 2005
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    Minnesota
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    I guess so. It does show that there is metal on the intake to adapt it. At least on the Harcourt. It looks like there is room on some of the other ones too, like the Wilpower. Not so much the Huffy...

    I think you're right about the Carter spread-bore. That's what came on the 215's right?
    Nic '73 Vega GT Aluminum Wildcat 355
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2357894

  23. #23
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    Maplewood, MN
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    Default Re: Willpower vs Huffaker intakes on the flowbench

    The stock 215's used Rochester carburetors. a 2GC 2bbl or a square bore 4GC 4bbl.


    Rochester 4GC



    The larger motors 364-425 used the spread bore Carter AFB which is the base architecture for the Edelbrock carbs.

    I read an article by Phil Baker where he mentioned a Motorcraft spread bore off of a 67-69 Javelin that had 1 1/16 primaries and 1 9/16 secondaries. He said it would fit a stock manifold with no other modifications. (I believe this carb was off of a 290 CI engine. Probably a tough one to find these days.

 

 

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