Won't deal with Goldboattail455 again. (Long)

Discussion in 'Buyer/Seller Feedback' started by Jim68Skylark, Aug 23, 2004.

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  1. Jim68Skylark

    Jim68Skylark Well-Known Member

    First and foremost if I had gotten an independent third party inspection none of the following would have occurred.

    Starts off innocently enough
    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47473&highlight=1972+riviera

    (9) nine emails later this

    Hi Jim
    I am Robs mom and title holder of the 72 Riv , as Rob is underage. I support the transaction you two have negotiated 100%. Re: IL registration. It is not current nor is the car licensed. Both expired in Oct 2003 and the car has been stored since then. VIN # 4Y87U2H932424.
    Let us know if you need anything else.

    Should have set off a bell; but, trust factor for site member radar screen is not blipping

    Im not worried about rust because I want a driver. Car is represented to be a driver. I agree to buy, fly in and drive home for his firm price.

    This email with my Questions answered factors into my decision

    Jim,
    My awnsers are in BOLD. Hope this helps, any questions or comments feel free to ask. I will include many extra gear,parts ,and supplies for the trip back and bring you to an autozone for anything else.
    If you would like to purchase the car then send a deposit to hold the car within the next week or so and then to bring cash within two weeks there after. The price is firm, as is, no adjustments.
    what's up with gas guage? bad sending unit, bad float, bad wiring. is problem
    in or out of tank? It has a bad sending unit.

    Questions are as follows:

    EXTERIOR
    What is condition of paint Very Good
    How is alignment of body panels (gaps) Just as the Factory had set them.
    Any upper body corrosion No, some lower but POR-15 put on all of it.
    Any upper body dents/dings No dings or dents
    Any collision damage No collision damage.
    Any re-spray No original Sierra Tan paint.
    Any body filler (a.k.a. Bondo) No.
    How is exterior chrome/bright work Excellent, except rear bumper that is pitted. Another bumper is included.
    How are glass and rubber gaskets Glass is in Awesome Shape. Gasket are all good, except on has a tear from window.
    TRUNK/BOOT
    How is jack - original or replacement No jack, one can be provided.
    How is lug wrench - original or replacement No lug wrench, one is included.
    How is spare tire - original or replacement Replacement, in ok shape.
    How is carpeting or rubber matting - original or replacement Carpet is in great shape, comes with buick logo handy mats
    LOCKS
    How many keys (per set) are there 2 sets, 2 master keys, two trunk keys, and 1 gas cap key.
    Does one key operate both front door locks Yes
    Do the keys fit and operate the locks as they are meant to Yes
    ENGINE BAY
    Does the Hood/Bonnet open easily Yes
    Is the underside of the hood clean A Little dirty
    Does the paint in the engine bay match that of the car No the color of the car but the paint that the factory sprayed on. Red valve covers, silver carb.
    Is the engine and bay clean No, greasy and a bit dirty
    Are numbers stamped on the engine match those on the ID plate on the firewall Yes
    Are any wires or electrical cables loose, cracked, brittle or frayed No
    Is there oil visible anywhere on the engine and where No
    Is there oil visible on the floor beneath the car Only pwr steering fluid
    Is there transmission fluid on the floor beneath the car No
    Is there coolant on the floor beneath the car No
    Is oil in the engine at the manufacturers recommended level Yes, at factory specs.
    What color is oil Brown
    What color is transmission fluid Red
    Does oil or transmission fluid smell burnt No
    ENGINE
    Does car start easily Yes
    Any clanks when the car first started up No
    Doe the car idle smooth Yes
    Is there coolant visible when cap removed Yes
    Any air bubbles surfacing in the water No
    Any oil in the water No
    Any blow-by from oil cap? Not sure what you mean, sorry
    Any smoke blow out tail pipe and what color is it Only when its winter. Thin white.
    TRANSMISSION
    From a standstill with engine running, applying the parking brake firmly and
    putting the car in R and then in D are there any clunks from the drive train No.
    When given throttle does the car hunker down labor and nearly stall or move Yes if its on too rich of gas. Otherwise no
    With the parking brake released and under load can you manually shift through
    the gears and feel the smoothness or the change Yes you can feel the gears change.
    Do the gears engage and disengage smoothly Yes
    Under load during normal driving are any noticeable clunks from the drive train No
    DRIVABILITY
    When driving
    Do the brakes pull the car to one side No
    Do the gears still engage and disengage smoothly Yes
    What is the oil pressure Normal operating range
    Does the car run smoothly Yes
    Any misfires at idle or under load No
    With hands momentarily off the steering wheel, does the car keep going in a
    straight line Yes
    Are there and odd noises Only when the steering is turned all the way to one side, while going slow.
    ELECTRIC
    Do the indicators work Yes
    Do the parking/side lights work Yes
    Do the head lights work Hi-beam Lo-beam Yes
    Do the instrument lights work Yes
    Do the interior lights work Yes
    Do the brake lights work Yes
    Do the rear lights work Yes
    Do the reversing lights work Yes
    Do the number plate lights work Yes
    Do the windshield wipers work correctly Yes, but pump is broken, a new one is 20 bucks from ACDELCO
    Does the horn work Yes
    Do all the switches and gauges work Yes, excluding the gas gauge
    Any switches or gauges missing No
    Are all the gauges original Yes
    Does the car have Air Conditioning does it blow cold Yes, ice cold.
    Does the car have a Heater does it blow hot Yes
    INTERIOR
    What are the seats covered with Black Vinyl
    Is it original Yes
    What condition is it in EXCELLENT conidition.
    Are there any rips, tears or broken stitching One minor broken stitch, about 4 inches on the drivers seat.
    Do the seats operate easily, front/back, recline Yes
    Is original trim all there Yes
    The interior chrome fittings look Excellent
    Is there any pitting No
    What condition is the headliner in PERFECT condition
    Are there any rips or tears Only in drivers seat.
    What condition are the carpets in Excellent
    Do carpeting or upholstery need cleaning or replacing Only Cleaning
    Does radio work Yes
    Does antenna work Yes
    What condition are the interior door panels in show condition
    Do the doors operate easily from inside the car Yes
    Do the windows operate easily Yes, except the rear drivers side is a little bit slower.
    Do the door locks work and operate smoothly Yes
    Do the doors drop when you open them No
    Do they align correctly in order to close Yes
    WHEELS
    What wheels are fitted to the car Regular hubs.
    Are they original Yes
    What overall condition are they in A little above drivers condition
    TIRES
    What make and size of tires are fitted to the car Goodyear Tiempo P225 75 R15
    Are all five tires (spare included) the same size and make Yes
    How worn are they The tires have about 60-75% of the tread left.
    SUSPENSION
    Does the car sit level Yes
    When pressing weight on each corner of the car in turn, and bouncing the car six
    times and letting go does the car return to its regular ride height without
    continuing to bounce up and down Yes, it returns to its regular ride height.
    UNDERNEATH
    Is there rubberized under-coating / POR 15 treatment beneath the car Only the factory coatings
    Any signs of rust, a bent frame or patches that have been welded in Frame is in great shape with no work every done or work needed to be done. There is some rust in rear quarters but POR-15 put on it.
    PAPERWORK
    What kind of title Regular car title, you would be the third owner, and we would have to insure and register the vehicle to drive to the DMV.
    What kind of service records Everything from 1981 to present
    Sincerely,
    Rob

    So I go ahead and order some 1972 Factory Service and Assembly manuals as well as some road wheels and a fuel sender pick up unit.

    Upon arrival and startup heater hose starts leaking. Quickly tighten hose clamp to stop. Seller explains that radiator drain cock is frozen and last flush and fill was done though lower hose. Also explains tires have a lil flat spotting on em. Pop trunk and jack is there complete with a flat spare. Seller didnt know what jack looked like or answered my question above incorrectly.
    SECOND TIME BELL SHOULD HAVE GONE OFF.

    Drive to gas station and fill up watching gas gauge rise as the tank fills (wasted money on fuel sending unit V the gauge doesnt move unless you put gas in tank), then go about 15 miles to first stop. Seller was putting in gas by gallon can so not enough gas was put in to register on fuel gauge. AC is blowing cold, brakes are chattering, car pulls occasionally on highway braking, steering is slipping on local driving and hard turning.

    Figure no biggie, quick fix and Im on my way back home to NY from IL where I am.

    Pop hood, water pump weeping on power steering belt. Figure thats why power steering is slipping. NAPA has pump. No tools on hand so I bring to local auto repair facility. Request diagnostic check for cooling system, brakes and power steering.

    Diagnostics come out like this:
    1. radiator will not make ride home
    2. water pump needs to be replaced
    3. hoses should be replaced
    4. front brakes need to be overhauled
    5. rear drums will probably survive the trip home; but, need work.
    6. Tires are old and may not hold up to friction caused by highway speeds on way home.
    7. Spare is flat.

    NAPA has all parts so I give the go ahead. They will soak water pump bolts overnight in penetrating oil and heat them up in the morning.

    Next morning two bolts break upon waterpump removal. One is easily drilled out. The other not. Take off timing cover for better access and give it a go. A dozen bits are broken before decision to have it machined out is reached. I put a hold on all further action.

    Post here Im stranded. Some members, except seller, call email or PM offers or referrals for assistance which is greatly appreciated.

    Abandon car as costs to get this driver home are starting to become project costs and Im sure that there is more to come once I get it going and on the road at highway speeds for a few hours.

    AC does blow cold, Ill give it that.

    Southwest gets me home on short notice so I can get back to work on Friday. What started out as a fly in Sunday drive home, be home by Tuesday has turned into an escapade.

    Wind up finding in Brooklyn a 1970 Riviera (yeah, Im a glutton for punishment) that is 95% restored and rebuilt with all parts to complete plus spares for less than the cost of repairing or transporting car home for repair.

    Seller in Brooklyn called me no less than 4 times within hours of taking car to make sure I got home safe, as the brakes had some chatter in them. He has continuously emailed me about what he has done to the car as far as specs, parts and modifications are. Car needed to have the front drums turned, pass NYS safety inspection (did with no problems) and it is ready to drive.

    Now if I had done my due diligence instead of trusting a member; and, a respected member by all posts I see, as well as a few comments by other repsected members this would not have happened.

    I was gonna leave well enough alone; but got tired of seeing posts seller has made in the following; as well as, seeing enough dont know shoulder shrugging within posts about the state of sale, purchaser or car. (seller will probably delete posts once he reads this so Im copying applicable text below link).

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51256
    Victor,
    Unfortunely i sold the car. And th enew owner encountered some problems, and is now selling it in the "Pay It Forward" section. The front brakes are "supposedly" shot. The suspension to my knowledge is great, and was aligned about every 10+ months. Although, the car stopped being a frequent daily driver in 89', then in 99' driving it was stopped, next it sat until 2002 when my father aquired it, and in Nov. 2003 i had it put on Jack stands in my garage. I know for a fact the first owner had a service estimate on the suspension, but to my knowledge i have no idea if the front suspension was ever replaced. However i do know the basics were replaces, shock absorbers etc.
    I will be getting another Buick in spring.


    BTW I gave it away to another member here who knows a thing or two about our cars. I was embarrassed to sell it so it was not FS in the pay it forward forum. See my stranded in Naperville, IL post in PIF forum. Car is in good hands now and an attempt is going to be made to make it a driver with its original engine or a replacement. The rust spots will be patch metaled or repaired depending on severity.

    Car had no period correct hubcaps and ones it had were two Buick and two Oldsmobile. I told seller to give them away on pay it forward forum only to find this.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51714
    Buick Hubcaps
    This is a set of 2 Buick hubcaps in great condition. No cracks, missing emblems, dings or dents. I think these are for a LeSabre, or Electra from 70-72. But correct me if im wrong.
    $10.00 obo plus shipping

    Some giveaway!

    This fouled me up, too. Made me think just rust was problem.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44146
    have had my buick since December 02' when my father passed away and gave it to me. Anyways its a 1972 Buick Riviera with many options. All original no restoration. Its in need of one from our horrible Chicago weather. It has horrible rust and i dont know what to do. Should i get a rustfree 72 shell and put all my current parts in that shell and scrap the old one? Try to find quarter panels for less than an arm and a leg? Or Whatever. Im not very sure what to do yet so i need some peoples help. I will post some pics of my car. Remember im only 14 and dont have quite as much money as many of you.

    There are numerous posts once I went back and did my homework that made car appear to be fine mechanically and just need rust work cosmetically.

    This was the final straw for me.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53230
    GoldBoattail455
    Chevy Its whats 4 dinner
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: IL
    Posts: 1428 1972 Buick Riviera
    WANTED: 1972 Buick Riviera, must have straight rust-free body (some dents acceptable). Interior, trim, and drivetrain any cond. accepted. GS & Stage 1 options = BIG +. Any combinations of options accepted. Any color accepted. Top dollar paided for right car. Thanks in advance.
    Maximum price of $3,000.


    The only communication I had with seller after sale was my 08-11-04 email request that I get the title as soon as possible. I never heard boo from him once I drove off from his house.

    Rob, you have some growing up to do. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt based on youth. Youre not a driver and havent driven the car. But true Buick enthusiasts do not treat other Buick enthusiasts like this. I have received parts from members for my 1968 for no charge and wound up sending them postage to cover Priority Mail costs as well as sending a check to this board to cover estimated part cost. Im not listed as a contributor in financial section but have contributed. Not looking for recognition, just some company and advice from fellow enthusiasts.

    I was lucky to meet another enthusiast after I dealt with seller who put me in the driver I was looking for. Seller was in dire straits and his loss was my gain. The Buick Gods work wonders.

    Honor and integrity are much more valuable than all the money in the bank.

    Id rather be bankrupt and have my integrity than have millions with no integrity. A choice we all make as we mature.

    I have been on this fine planet long enough to know what goes around, comes around and I fully understand the concept of as is, where is.

    Comeupperance should not be surprising, but rather expected. (only those with a severe street slang will know what Im saying V it is in no way a threat V kinda like Karma)

    Stupid me actually had the thought of fixing the rust repair and modifying it at Stage 1 and Gessler in NJ to present it back to seller with the help of fellow members in sellers 18th birthday year at the BPG nationals since it was sellers fathers car which Im sure he bought to bond with seller as he matured into his formative teen years.

    I was going to hold off on this post since seller has not received title to give to me; but, decided to further test sellers person insofar as to see if and when he receives title he forwards it to me as promised in last email dated 08-11-04.

    Jim,
    We will get over there to get it ands send it as soon as possible. Ill contact you when weve sent it. Sorry it didnt work out for you, when it was in our hands it was a driver. And yes nothing can blow cold air that quick nowadays.
    Rob


    Seller seems to be a good kid, this was just a bad deal. V Thats it from me.
     
  2. Billy

    Billy Well-Known Member

    What a novel

    Wow What a novel......? But all you went thru it's well deserved. The kid basically sold you some crap and now he is going to buy something nicer.:rant: He's probably out right now hitting gears in his new ride.:3gears: It's a shame about the deal.:ball: But he's only a kid.....:spank: And he don't know much. Hope you get the title ok.:jd:
     
  3. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member

    His daddy didn't raise him too well. I've not heard of such treatment from a fellow board member before.

    Frank
     
  4. PolishBuickGuy

    PolishBuickGuy Buick Noob

    He's not even 16 yet.

    Slawek
     
  5. Stagedcoach71

    Stagedcoach71 Well-Known Member

    Sorry it didn't work out. Sometimes old cars can be difficult.

    Bummer.:(
     
  6. Brian Albrecht

    Brian Albrecht Classic Reflections

    Easy now

    Whoaaa. Take it easy on the KID.

    Jim,

    I read through your post and it is an unfortunate tale indeed. But perhaps you could shoulder more of the blame and lighten up on the kid.

    The way I see it you decided to gamble on a 32 year old Buick making a trip from Chicago to New York City and you lost. I don't like that you lost but you did. Years ago, I had a guy buy a worn out '71 GS455 off of me and he drove it deep into Canada. Had something gone wrong I know he would have left me negative feedback on eBay. The lucky son of a gun made the run and left me positive feedback.

    Your post is a thin disguise of everything you did wrong. The heater hose leaked and you tightened the clamp and it stopped. That is not an issue and a bell didn't necessarily need to go off. You find the car has a jack even though in your 100 questions the seller says it didn't. I think anyone would consider that a good thing. You find the gas gauge to be operable like that is a bad thing. Anyone-at least I would-consider that a good thing. You mention the spare as flat twice. I think we got that one the first time.

    Even worse, you say members offered to help you from all over the place, but not the SELLER. What adult expects a 14 year old kid to "offer" assistance to a "stranded" motorist? :Dou:


    After you begin your journey you find the water pump "weeping". Something anyone could overlook including a 14 year old kid and a buyer that is "trusting". Everyone on this website knows that a Buick water pump can go at anytime. And, as I have found over and over again, that water pump change on a relatively untouched original 455" can turn into a genuine nightmare. Perhaps hindsight is 20/20. You could have dropped in some stop leak and crossed your fingers. Maybe you could have turned off that ice cold A/c to keep the load off that old cooling system and driven at night. Instead you elect to enlist Pep Boys for some quality work. :Do No:

    You then post a thread telling the Buick world you are stuck. Someone replied to you that the engine could be put back together just for the ride home. That would have, in all likelyhood, been a great suggestion. Instead, you abandon the entire deal and fly back home.

    Once back at the house you write off the whole deal. Everything is Rob's fault. You go on line and give away the manuals you bought and become disgusted with Rob's postings.

    If Rob wants to sell a set of hubcaps that you told him to keep that is his business. If he wants to take the money you gave him for the Riviera and buy a quad-that to is his business. Your effort to get back at him reaches an extreme when you suggest you were going to fix it up and give it back to him for his 18th birthday. Since it was only 20 miles from the kids house why didn't you just offer it back to him then? Worse, you say you would gladly crush a vintage Riviera because of a water pump bolt? What kind of Buick "enthusiast" suggests such things?

    Jim. I don't care if you leave this posting on here just the way it is, but please call Rob and let him know that this whole thing was not his fault. Maybe you could learn from this and reason further on the next deal. I never have been able to think past the dream and look at the reality of an old Buick in need of work. I could easily commit the same error you did. I just would have handled the feedback differently.

    Good luck with the Riviera. It sounds as though you did get a great deal on it. I suppose it all comes out in the wash. The big Buicks rock!

    :TU:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2004
  7. austingta

    austingta Well-Known Member

    Oh geez. A person should not misrepresent the condition of an item for sale. Period. That's not so hard to understand, is it?

    Frank Brooks
    16 year old son
    14 year old twins
    None of whom would have pulled this crap.
     
  8. Jim68Skylark

    Jim68Skylark Well-Known Member

    Right on Frank, right on! :)

    Any of my four kids would have acted differently, it's the way they were raised. Integrity counts, nothing else. A man's word is his bond.

    Come on Brian, not one phone call, email or PM to see if I made it home OK, especially after I posted the "Stranded in Naperville".

    You can call the kid, who likes to post helpful little tidbits in threads offering his assitance, and tell him I say he can go to Hades in a hand basket. Better yet, why don't you adopt the lil f****r since you have the defense of the indefensible down pat! You'll do him good when the local police precint calls defending him as he's only a kid and didn't mean it.

    I got a car that's three years older, which was maintained properly and drives like a son of a gun after I turned the drums.

    My 68 drove like a champ from PA last year 130 miles without incident and has run at no cost for over a year because it was well maintained. I just did a tuneup on it replacing the plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor ... because that is good preventative maintenance. Car was running fine and could have done without; but, I take care of my cars as do most board members here.

    His threads indicated the car was well maintained and a driver, it was far from the truth.

    His threads indicated he had a reliable car and was looking for a project, again far from the truth.

    I stated in my first line this never would have occurred if I had an independent third party inspection as the car would have been found to be what it was - a project!

    You want to make me wrong, go ahead - that still doesn't make Rob right.

    Good night and pleasant dreams! :grin:

    And if you were just trying to get this thread deleted by the mods, mission accomplished! :Dou:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2004
  9. Billy

    Billy Well-Known Member

    I agree Brian

    I agree with most of what brian is saying. He knew up front that the car had been sitting a while and will need some TLC to get it home. A good mechanic would have made it home with no problem. As long as the motor and trans ran ok? Stop leak might help and if the motor was not running hot when he drove it the 15 miles or so i"m sure the radiator would have survived the trip. If it all came down to it he could have carried some extra water in gallon jugs and refilled the radiator every so often. Hell i seen a guy take JB weld and plug up a weap hole on a water pump all because he was too cheap to buy a new one. We called him cheap john........ And he rode with it like that for 2 years before the water pump shaft bearings finally went.:laugh: So yeah i agree he should have cut the kid some slack:puzzled:
     
  10. Mike Miller

    Mike Miller Well-Known Member

    I can't believe I am going to reply to this thread, but ...

    You bought a car $2000 (or less) that sounds to be a steal even the way you described it. Then you expect to drive this car across half the country and anticipate no issues. It sounds to me as though your expectations of a 30+ year old car were extremely unrealistic. Regardless of this kids age I don't think he was that innaccurate in his description. I don't know Bruce ( Bruce and Shirl), but he seems to know a little about cars and he thought it was a good buy. I purchased a 68 GS for more than you spent on your Riv and I was shocked it made the twenty minute ride to my home let alone halfway across the country. Unless you used up some frequent flier miles, you could have rented a Uhaul trailer and truck cheaper than the cost of a plane ticket and had your car home hassle free.

    Mike
     
  11. buickman71

    buickman71 da RED BEAST!

    duh, thats what i was gonna say mike. i woul dhave had it traileredsince it is a 30+ year old car and is not mint. would have been cheaper and hassel free, yet that doesnt make rob all right, he should have checked to make sure the car was to jims need and if it wasnt, then pull the deal off, or since he is 14 or 15, let his dad take it to a check up point or something and do a tune up, i would put most of the blame off the kid and onto his parents for not re- usuring the cars attraction....but in the end....the kids 15....u should have trailered a 30+ car home that far..i would even trailor a 10 year old car home that far away

    my 2cents

    kyle
     
  12. Dana/Beth Andrews

    Dana/Beth Andrews Huc accedit zambonis!

    Ya know we bought a car off the board last year, sight unseen. Knew the history of the car, and guess what ... the motor broke after about a month.
    I never for a second thought to slam the seller on this board becouse,

    A: I'm a big boy and know S*#t happens.

    B: the car was thirty years old and S@*t happens to thirty year old cars.

    C:its a small world here and I didnt want to go off half cocked and look like a d**k.

    I was on the other side of this too when I sold my GS a couple months ago and the rear end broke on the new owner the second day he had it.
    I felt aweful about it but the thing was sold as is w/ no warrenties, I expect the Riv was sold in the same fashion.
    I may be a little to close on this one to be truelly objective as I know Rob personally and even thought about buying the car when it went up for sale,
    but wasnt looking for another project so I passed. That being said....
    I think the bottom line here is knowing what we know about old cars and their tendencies to break now and then you took a big chance thinking you could drive it home to NY and lost big, that sucks for sure but I dont think any one held a gun to your head.

    Here's to better experiences:beer
    We all can learn from this one:Dou:

    Dana
     
  13. jbc455

    jbc455 Between cars...

    I wasn't going to say anything either, but I have to make one comment:

    If someone asked me HALF of the "Questions are as follows" list about a 30 year old car, I'd have told them to take a long walk off a short pier. Sounds like the buyer thought they were buying a 4 year old car from a dealer. For God's sake, it hasn't been driven regularly in 15 years! What do you expect???

    I'm not defending any alleged misrepresentation, but when the buyer shows up to see the car in person, that's when the deal is made or broken.

    Used cars are just that, "USED". What you see is what you get. A quick trip to any mechanic before any money was exchanged would have prevented the madness...

    It sucks to hear about deals that go south.

    John
     
  14. RivVer

    RivVer Active Member

    Lets have a poll!!. I don't feel I should set it up as I am kinda of a new member here and hav'nt earned my keep yet.
     
  15. avc1966

    avc1966 Well-Known Member

    I feel as a seller, I would rather talk the car down and represent all of its ups and down, than have someone disappointed. Most people are supprised when they see the stuff I sell. My idea of fair condition, maybe someone's driver. When I read Rob's add, I thought the car sounded pretty good. I didn't correlate that car and the one in pay it forward until recently. I didn't think it was the same car. I thought the riv was a driver by the add. Driver meaning, you could hop in it and go. That is my definition. Otherwise it needs some work. I saw racebuicks 69 GS at Bowling green, and he was very honest about that it could be driven, but he had only done so around town, and not very far. That is the stuff I like to hear as a buyer. Jim, Like you I would have also asked a ton of questions about a car I didn't look at personally. I know they are used old cars, and things happen, and of course as the owner you can not know everything wrong with, or going wrong with your vehicle. But the experience still leaves a bad taste in your mouth, and I feel for Jim. When my cousin bought Dana's car and had an immediate problem, it sucked. But that was an issue no one could have known about. We didn't cry about it, but is still pissed you off. (it is hard to explain to your wife about the great car you bought, that has an immediate problem). But I enjoy Dana and Beth, no hard feelings, and that's life, Oh well. When I bought my sporty from John Mousuda at the nationals, It has been one of the best cars, and the nicest experiences I have had buying a car. I know we all differ on this this, and that is the way it is. Jim, I feel bad. Rob, this will always happen in someone's eye's when you sell stuff. Whose right or wrong:Do No:
     
  16. MikeM

    MikeM Mississippi Buicks

    Bad luck doesn't deserve a poll, in my opinion.

    Besides that, I can't think of much to add that's new. Old cars break. Whenever I've bought one over the web long distance I've shipped it or the seller has driven it to me. Eight times, no problems.

    Then something breaks, tough $#!+. But I've been lucky.
     
  17. i did not want to say one way or the other on a right and wrong here.
    the car is a machine.a mechanizume.
    a machine can be running good and taping out parts at a local shop anywhere in these great states we live in and drop dead the next minute.
    could anyone have prevented the thing from breaking while working the machine.
    pm's daily look over before stating up the machine, anything.
    it ran good and produced effectivly the day before, but today it decided enough was enough and shut down and is broke.
    no one could have predicted the outcome the day before, no one could have stoped the machine from quiting the next day.
    a car just like any other machine is prone to failier.
    it might not happen today or tomarow but we all know it will happen.
    fact of life.
    otherwise we would not have had as many cars as we have had in the past and all the car dealers throughout the world would not be in business today.
    we would all be driving model t's or a's because they never broke down or rusted.
    my view point is,
    bad deal--no
    bad outcome--yes
    could you predict the outcome---no

    good luck in the final outcome of this situation

    Greg
     
  18. preztoyz

    preztoyz Well-Known Member

    Well everyone took my thoughts on this......I hate to hear about deals that go south as well. I bought a 79 Ford F-100 and 2 months later the trans went out. No one could see that coming. It was just something that happend.

    That is also why I parted out my 69 Skylark. I figured if it wasn't worth me fixing then no one else would want to either.
    Preston
     
  19. the455guy

    the455guy New Member

    Everyone is missing the point. The buyer never made it out of area where he even purchased the car, it was already broke when he bought it. This is a "driver" this is misrepresentation. The seller did not even make a call to see if the buyer made it home ok or not. You guys that defend or blow this off, have a big lesson learned coming your way, watch out live and learn don't get screwed. There are plenty of true driver cars out there nto being misrepresented, why do some of you critize the buyer, her is the honest guy, never asked for his moeny back, never dropped the car off in the front yard of the seller and let it over heat and blow a rod right there. He is the honest one, and i read a few remarks that the buyer was naieve or should have been prepared. He isnt the fool that some work hinting towards. JUST HONEST

    This was an expensive " Oh you will have that sometimes " when you travel across the country " one way ticket of course $$$$ " and then fire up your new toy and it isnt how you were told ( not imagined ) then you may say " oh you will have that sometimes ". You will probably say what the heck i will dump a few hundered in it and get cruising home. When the few hundered turns into several hundered and you have missed several days from work and you are wondering how in god's name am i going to tell the wife about this one. Then you have to leave your toy and find a one way ticket back home. Missing work hacking the boss off etc etc etc...

    Then you know it was a BAD DEAL. When we are in line for such mistreatment we will all start posting unhappy feedback at this time. Then the original seller is looking to buy another one right after this is sold. Makes you wonder, or are we all in denial.

    Good luck everyone, i hope this sends out a warning that this Buick community is smaller smarter than some really think.
     
  20. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Lessons to learn..

    Without placing blame or taking sides here..:


    I see lots and lots of cars, that come to the shop.. I have learned a few things..

    Lessons:

    1. When looking to buy a car, believe nothing that you don't see with your own eyes. Rebuilt motor?... ya sure.. not unless it looks like one.. and I am not talking just a fresh paint job here, either..

    2. Don't send any money, not even a deposit, until you have seen the car in person. If you can't get away to inspect it, then hire somebody to.. I do used car inspections all over the country, and it's the best money a few guys have spent, since I saved them from a huge mistake. Even if it cost them a grand to fly me across the country, and pay expenses and what I charge to inspect a car. Most important for big dollar cars, obviously this is not that kinda car.

    IN this instance, if your not technically qualified to inspect the car, or have the tools and space to do it right there, then take it to a shop.. any shop.. and have them take a peek at it. Simple things, brakes, lights, fluid leaks ect.. This inspection should be done BEFORE money changes hands.

    3. Forget this notion of the "fly in drive back" deal. Not realistic. If you don't have a trailer, have it shipped, after you go out and inspect it, or have it inspected.

    Even with what I know about these cars, and the ablilites I have, I would not attempt some thing like this. Too many things to go wrong, in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere. And even I can't rebuild a trans or rear end on the side of the road.

    I am surprised we don't see more of these stories, cause I sure could tell you a few doozies, of cars bought sight unseen off of ebay for many thousands of dollars, that may be worth half the asking price.

    Bottom line on this deal as far as I am concerned...

    Prolly the first car this guy ever sold, and I am willing to bet he just simply did not know that much about it. Especially since he can't even drive it. Pretty hard to make a personal representation of a vehicle you can't drive. I doubt there was any effort made by him to really decieve anyone, I think this is more ignorance than anything else. And I would not expect a 14 year old to conduct this type of buisness in an adult fashion, since he isn't an adult. Just because your kids could do it, does not mean he can. He may not have that maturity level quite yet.

    Buyer made the fundimental mistake of ignoring every one of the rules I put forth here, and got bit by it. Some times you can get away with this, but sometimes the story goes much like this one.

    Plenty of blame to place on both sides of the equation here.

    The ABC's of buying a used car:

    1 Locate the vehicle.
    2. Talk to the owner
    3. Inspect the vehicle personally
    4. If your not qualified to do so, have it inspected professionally
    5. Then start talking money.
    6. Make the deal, exchange the money and paperwork.
    7. If your out of town, have the car shipped, or trailer it home.


    I see number 3 and 4 skipped all the time, then the new owner brings it to me, to "fix it up" a little.

    Imagine their surprise when I tell them it will cost 2-4 times what they paid for it, to make it into the car they think they just bought.

    JW
     
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