Window Sticker Questions

Discussion in 'The "Paper Trail"' started by dynaflow, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    I’m painfully close to having every piece of info needed to get a correct repro window sticker made. Anyone with a ’71 missing some or all documentation can appreciate the journey…I’ve managed to find most everything, but need help with some details…

    1) Bulletin 71-I-20 explains “B-2” on line 1 of window sticker as “Consumer Information Booklet ID” for Skylark and GS with disc brakes. Every B-2 window sticker I’ve seen has a B suffix (B-2B). No mention of suffix in 71-I-20. Anyone know what B suffix means?

    2) Line 2 has 3-part grouping on right. First and second parts are Zone# and Dealer#. Third part looks like Order#. True?

    3) 5 years and still looking…anyone know “Destination Charge” to Honolulu for a Flint GS? Possible source includes all GS convertibles (don’t know if Skylark convertibles were Flint-only), and GS coupes with any GSX option...may be others, but these for sure Flint-only.
     
  2. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    John,

    My 71 GS 350 Convt. with disc brakes carries booklet #1238039 or booklet ID B-2 with punch out B

    It appears from 78-I-20 that a 71 GS 455 with disc brakes would be booklet #1238039 ID B-2 with punch out A .

    The booklet for disc brakes is 1238039
    Drum brake booklet is 1238038
    Punch letter refers to engine.
    A = 455 (GS)
    B = 350 (GS)
    C = 350 (Skylark)
    D = 6 Cyl. (Skylark)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  3. Dan Healey

    Dan Healey Well-Known Member

    Doesn't Mike Trom know these answers?
     
  4. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Tired of Politics!

    I am finding interesting, there are a few codes on the stickers that I have not found a reference to their meaning like the letters after the dealer zone code on the 2nd line, sometimes its "A", "M", JK, other. Only on Flint stickers. Other factories have other mystery codes.

    The "B-XX" codes were only used on Flint stickers and the original 70 Flint stickers that I have show;
    B-1C - disc brakes GS ST1
    B-2C - Disc brakes GS 455 Conv (this one does not fit the pattern)
    B-1C - Disc brake GSX
    No "B" code GS455 coupe (2 stickers)
    No "B" code Riv
    No "B" code Power brakes, Sportwagon

    Original 71 Flint stickers
    No "B" code GSX
    B-2B Disc brake Stage 1
    B-1C Power Brake Skylark
    B-8B Riv

    So it looks like Flint was not consistent with putting the "B" codes on all stickers. Could the third letter be the revision level of the booklet? The original stickers I have do not seem to associate the letter with engine size. Window stickers were typed in by humans so maybe some of the codes were mistakes? I have seen typos on original stickers.

    2) the third part after the dealer zone code is the order number.
    3) Destination charges are still a bit of a mystery and finding one for Hawaii would be a challenge.
     
  5. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    I should've said Flint, sometimes forget I have Flint-only car...
    According to Bulletin 71-I-20 dated 10/23/70, the "B-n" part of code defines which federally mandated Consumer Information Booklet goes in car. Nothing said about suffix, have to assume not related. The '71 "B-2," "B-1," and "B-8" are correct for their respective series...can't explanation GSX. Guessing reason for bulletin was feds were enforcing rule and Buick started paying attention to codes. Might explain '70 inaccuracies. Revision level possible, but so far haven't found booklet with different or rev modified number...
    Thank you, nice to get answer now and then instead of more questions...
    5 years now, still looking...really want to get as much correct info as possible before I have you make a sticker. I even found an IBM 1403 printer font...looks pretty good but missing a couple needed special characters...not ready for prime time.
     
  6. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    Interesting...my 71 GS350 disc brake, Flint car has booklet B-2B which is correct according to the
    71-I-20 bulletin.
    I also have a 71 Skylark 350, TH350 with drum brakes build sheet in section 93 it states B-1C which
    is also correct according to the 71-I-20.
    Another 71 GS 455, TH400,Disc Brake, Fremont car, Section 93, B-2A which is also correct according to the 71-I-20.

    I was told that each GM division had one destination charge for each series. The charge was the same anywhere
    in the 48 states. If I remember correctly your car was delivered to Schuman Carriage Co. in Oakland,Ca. then shipped to
    Schuman in Hawaii. I was wondering if it was billed as an Export or normal destination.
     
  7. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Tired of Politics!

    I don't think that is true, I just checked each of the original GS/Skylark stickers that I have and the destination charges are all different
    All Flint Stickers;
    Ohio = $71
    Tennessee =$102
    New Orleans=$143
    Florida=$156
    Michigan=$37
    North Carolina=$107
    Minnesota=$106

    I think other factors played into destination charges like dealer volumes, trucking distance, etc.. Unfortunately I have no documentation to prove this so at this time destination charges are estimated by using original stickers as a reference.
     
  8. Brad Conley

    Brad Conley Super Moderator Staff Member

    Today, the "freight" is a combination of incoming materials shipping costs and destination charges all averaged out. Back in the day, the "Destination" charges were just that, the cost to deliver a model from the plant to the dealer. A dealer local to me told me once he had tons of people order cars from his dealership as his destination charges were lower than most. Some people just liked to beat the system and make somewhat of an adventure out of buying a new car.
     
  9. buick64203

    buick64203 Buick Hunter Staff Member

    The whole buying experience was so different back then. New models were a secret and brought in covered up. Showroom glass was papered over in preparation for the unveiling . Buying a new car was a big deal. It was a lot of money. People got dressed up to go to the dealer. The whole family went sometimes. You sat down and went through the trim book picking out all the options. The kid got a promo car. You brought a new car home and the whole block came over to look at it. Nowadays, people walk in to the dealer in sweats or pajamas and sign a piece of paper asking if the salesman can hurry up and get them out quick. And all these new cars look so much alike, no one even notices the car in your driveway is new.
     
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  10. thepartsman

    thepartsman Back Ordered Again ?

    I did not think my suggestion was correct...but I threw it out there anyway.
     
  11. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Tired of Politics!

    Each time I went to the dealer the last few years I knew way more about the vehicle than the salesman and many times called them out on it. Most of the salesman know nothing about the cars they are selling. I had one snot nosed kid salesman email me that I was wasting his time by shopping around for the best price and he was not going to play those games. I politely told him that he just lost any possible future sales and he is lucky I did not show the owner his email. This same kid knew nothing about the Silverado he was showing me and I was teaching him about it even though he did not seem interested.
     
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  12. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    Destination Charges.

    If you want to know more about destination charges you could potentially do some research at the Sloan Museum in Flint MI. Sloan has a copy of every sales invoice for 1973. They are original yellow copies from Buick. I picked up several dealer codes from the sheet several years ago.

    I did get several sheets for 79-908 which I am guessing might be your sales code. They were as follows
    159.00
    273.00
    219.00
    554.00

    79-959 was more consistent. I have two invoice both with 219.00

    I was only taking pictures of the dealer codes and happen to catch these by accident so really don't have much beyond that.
     
  13. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    May have something to do with which factory is was built in and how far it had to be shipped.

    Mark
     
  14. Mike Trom

    Mike Trom Tired of Politics!

    I would assume that where ever they were built (Flint or Fremont) they would be sent to the port of Los Angeles to be sent to Hawaii. Weather or not GM tacked on additional charges after that is the mystery. Then were the cars shipped to each island and would the get another charge added?

    From the prices you posted Mark it looks like a Fremont built car shipped to Hawaii had $100-$150 added to it and a Flint car may have had the same. This is pure speculation on my part.
     
  15. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    Thanks for numbers, may help if I need to resort to extrapolation, differences depend on assembly plant and model...wish I could use Sloan...but, nothing for '71s available.

    What I've learned over last 5 years or so...for "export" cars (which includes zone 79), destination charge was a 2-part sum, first was ground "shipping" from plant to port (port in my case, Oakland CA where 2 companies Buick used for Pacific were, SeaTrain and Matson). Buick used a secondary dealer number to designate each port/shipper (I have '72 GMAD evidence of a GS to Schuman showing 79-288 as Seatrain "shipped to" destination and 79-908 as "charge to" final destination. My guess is Buick used the pseudo dealer numbers to identify midpoints in shipping process and facilitate accounting. Historically their zone/dealer numbering system was based on ground transportation...they needed way to put the 2 together.
     
  16. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    Best chance I have of finding actual destination charge to 79-908 is if someone has an original '71, or '72 before 12/12/71 (pricing same as '71) window sticker for a Flint a-body coupe/convertible to Schuman...
     
  17. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    I will also dig through the content I have. I know I looked at buying a white GSX that was on Ebay several years ago that was shipped to 79-908. I may see if there was an original window sticker or maybe some other information like a sales documentation on the car. If it was a GSX I kept as much information as I could when cars come up for sale.
     
  18. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    ...would really appreciate that. As an aside, since my car was based in Honolulu, I binge watched Hawaii Five-O, looking for it. Didn't find mine, but did see white '70 GSX in Season 5 Episode 2 (discussed in thread here long time ago). Copied frame...

    70GSXhawaii5O.JPG
     
  19. gsxnut

    gsxnut Well-Known Member

    No Luck on the 1970 GSX. It did not the paperwork.

    Mark
     
  20. dynaflow

    dynaflow shiftless...

    Thanks for looking Mark...

    Casting the net wider...does anyone have original window sticker (or dealer documentation showing destination charge) for a Flint-built '71-'72 Skylark or GS coupe/convertible sold by Schuman Carriage Co.,Ltd. in Honolulu?
     

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