Who is the best Nailhead head porter

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by BuickStreet, May 21, 2003.

  1. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    Who is the best Nailhead head porter?

    And no I'm not talking about the guy with the funny hat who talkes your bags at the local 5 star.

    I'm talking about who would I send a set of 401 heads to to get them ported and larger valves fitted...etc?

    Is there a guru among us? I spy a set of heads on ebay going fairly cheap with no bids and I was thinking of buying them and having them sent a good head guy to work on and then have them sent down here to Australia. I don't trust anyone who doesn't know exactly what they're doing and have heard that Nailhead heads can flow as good as Stage 1 heads. Who does this work?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2003
  2. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    Smooth Flowing Nailhead

    Bill,

    Carmen Faso in NY does the Nailhead 1.94 intake valve conversion (716-6934090). That is the largest intake valve that will fit next to the exhaust valve in the Nailhead. The intake valves must be unshrouded to get the maximum benefit form this conversion. Air flow at the lower end of the valve lift is greatly improved by this conversion over a stock valve at the same lift, but the larger intake valve intake becomes shrouded by the combustion chamber in the higher lift range of the valve. The shrouding reduces the air flow of the converted valve at higher lift to a level lower then the stock valve at the same lift. Unshrouding the converted intake valve greatly improves the high lift figures, and allows the converted valve to outflow the stock valve throughout the lift range. Unfortunately, unshrouding the converted valve will require removing at least 5cc of material from the combustion chamber. That in turn will drop your compression by at least a point. This means custom pistons or decking the block to maintain the current compression ratio, or giving up compression.

    Regardless of using the big valve, any of the following experienced fellows can achieve flow #s from the Nailhead that are similar to a 455 Stage One head with some mild to moderate porting:

    Greg Gessler from NJ 908-362-7692
    Steve Magnotti from NY 914-962-1325
    Jim Burek from TX 915-855-6009
    Ed Mosler from CA 559-441-8322

    I would call and talk to all of them and see what they can offer you, and when you could have it. From my experience, these things have a way of taking some time.

    Hope that helps - Cheryl :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2003
  3. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    Thanks Cheryl.

    Could you guess as to how much all this might cost. Ballpark is ok.

    Another problem is that of course I'm in Australia so phoning them all might will be challenging.

    Have you had this work done yourself? Are the power gains worth the expense?
     
  4. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    Bill, Carmen did a set of heads for my 425. Its like $1000 for a standard job. The heads are great looking inside and out. I can't comment on the power yet. I should install the engine and get it broke in on my driver, but thats a lot of work and I am working on some other things. (Pondering what could be more important than MORE POWER??? WHat is wrong with me??)
    I should be starting the convertible 4-speed within the month.
    Pics soon. Cheers!
     
  5. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    When you say a "standard job" what do you mean? Is that like the work that Cheryl described above?

    Also, are good heads easy to find? There's a set of pretty good standard heads on ebay for a fairly decent price and I was thinking about getting them worked on before they where shipped out here.
     
  6. txgwildcat

    txgwildcat Guest

    Bill,
    If you don't win the ones on Ebay I have some for $125/pr.
     
  7. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    Thanks TXG (what's your name?).

    What condition are they in? Can you contact me off the board at bill@buickstreet.com? Can you send any pics?

    I appreciate the offer. If I buy them can you hold them for a short while (I'll send you the money for them straight away) until I figure out where to send them for porting?
     
  8. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    All the things Cheryl said, yeah. The 5cc of material may be offset by the change in intake valves, the original is tuliped and the new 1.94" is flat. Not sure of total differences!! I should cc some heads to find out.
    Carmen said he can sell them outright to you in Australia-us poor bastards in the US have to provide cores!
     
  9. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    Wow, now that's what I call service! Ted, you spoke to Carmen for me? Thanks.

    Now for the big question...how much? How long will it take before a pair is ready? Is that with the 1.94" intake's?

    Carmen's not on email is he? I'd like to find out a bit more about what he actually does to them. For example, does he flow test them? I expect that there are magnafluxed etc for cracks and pressure tested. Can he match a cam to the heads and my Dual Quad intake (or single 800 quadrajet) for a perfect setup? I know that the cam, heads and intake/exhaust should all match up for a real power increase. By the time I'm finished with this motor I'll have Tom Telesco's Roller rockers as well which should probably be taken into account as well.
     
  10. DugsSin

    DugsSin Well-Known Member

    Bill I would say for a fully worked set of heads $1500.00 easy. Our motors are not inexpensive as you know.
    Carmen can set you up with a cam to match your heads, excellent time to do it.
     
  11. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    Re: local head porter

    Now there is something I never would have guessed!
     
  12. Adam Whitman

    Adam Whitman Guest

    Not sure which is more unlikely...Olds would be the last on my list of GM engines for going fast; that is why my 50 Olds has a Buick engine unless I change my mind again.

    However, real head porters are few and far between too.:confused: :Do No:
     
  13. flynbuick

    flynbuick Guest

    Check out the L69 400 Olds v 401 Buick, 400 Pontiac GTO , 427 Chevy Biscayne and 426 Mopar in 1966. That year the Olds ran in C Stock and was national C stock champ. The 427 and 426 were in A stock. I do not remember for sure who was champ in A stock in 66 but from actually being there and seeing them run in 66, I would guess the Hemi. The 427 Biscayne , a forgotten car, is really quick though and will sneak up on you because it just does not look like it would have been that fast.

    Still despite the cubes disadvantage look at the relative performance of the Olds. (The 65-67 Olds 400 is not the same engine as the 68-69 400 Olds) Tell em Pinion Angle Dave. Thanks to Dave I own a 66 L69, 4 speed with a 3.91 gear and at 3500 pounds it will suprise a lot of Buicks, Pontiacs and Chevys. And yes, we have some GS cars. We love those too.

    www.cccvette.com/1966musclecars.htm
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2003
  14. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    More About That Nailhead Flow

    Bill,

    Here are some flow #s at 28 of water and a question to think about. If it flows like a 455 and has similar displacement to a 455, it should run like a .?

    Intake Flow at Lift (000=No value listed)
    100-200-300-400-500-600
    053-110-157-180-190-195 1.87 Nailhead Head (no porting)
    059-119-164-179-183-184 1.94 Nailhead Head Conversion by Carmen Faso
    000-117-160-194-197-000 2.00 455 Non-Stage One Head (no porting)
    062-127-171-197-212-219 1.87 Nailhead Head Ported by Greg Gessler
    000-134-184-204-210-000 2.13 455 Stage One Head (no porting)
    061-121-172-201-215-223 1.94 Nailhead Head Ported by Steve Magnotti
    000-150-194-214-227-000 2.00 455 Non-Stage One Head (moderately ported)
    000-144-197-232-246-000 2.13 455 Stage One Head (moderately ported)

    Exhaust Flow at Lift (000=No value listed)
    100-200-300-400-500-600
    045-077-099-114-119-120 1.50 Nailhead Head (no porting)
    048-082-112-120-124-125 1.50 Nailhead Head w/valve job by Carmen Faso
    048-083-108-130-138-141 1.50 Nailhead Head Ported by Greg Gessler
    052-093-126-141-150-153 1.50 Nailhead Head Ported by Steve Magnotti
    000-105-133-145-150-000 1.63 455 Non-Stage One Head (no porting)
    000-105-138-157-163-000 1.63 455 Non-Stage One Head (moderately ported)
    000-113-145-161-168-000 1.75 455 Stage One Head (no porting)
    000-113-148-170-178-000 1.75 455 Stage One Head (moderately ported)

    The cost of the Carmen Fasos big valve conversion with new valves, spring, seats and valve job was as stated in the above post. The Greg Gessler heads inherited with flow sheets reads $700 for the porting and valve job. The additional porting to Carmen Fasos big valve heads by Steve Magnotti was $450 (with some modifications to the Quadrajet intake), and 5ccs were lost before and after porting and unshrouding the big valves heads. I have a mold of the ported big valve combustion chamber that could be cced for a close estimate of combustion chamber volume if desired.

    Mr. Burek has stated he can make Nailhead heads flow in 260s on the high side of the intake lift and in the 190s on the high side of the exhaust lift. I believe any of the other porters I mentioned in my first post (Gessler, Mosler, Magnotti) could get similar #s with more aggressive porting. Those #s are very close to the flow #s of competition ported iron Stage One 455 heads. I know firsthand that competition port iron 455 heads will run 11s in the quarter mile with a pretty mild 455 build up. My question again, if a Nailhead can flow like a 455 and has similar displacement (a 425 at .030 over is only 25 CI smaller then a 455), what will it run like?

    Something to think about, and look forward to I believe Cheryl
    :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2003
  15. SpecialWagon65

    SpecialWagon65 Ted Nagel

    Wow, nice figures. I did speak with Carmen today, verified all the things Cheryl posted and got an update on the carbies he is working on for me. Installing the big 1.94 valve includes some bowl work- thats why they flow better than stock. Now I am putting all these ##s into a spreadsheet to look at %%s.

    Bill, are you still thinking shorty headers?

    Some very unscientific results- I removed the heat riser valve from the passenger side on my 65 Riv, installed a ss 2.25 exhaust. Seems to respond well to free-flowing exhaust. Thinking about the TA mandrel bendr 2.5" for the Riv next...If you have ever read a post flaming Kepich Exhaust, you know why. Drags on the ground, too hard to bend, junk.
     
  16. BuickStreet

    BuickStreet Well-Known Member

    Thanks Ted, Cheryl. Nailheads aren't cheap are they? Lol...I knew that going in but I really like the sound of a revving Nailhead - kind of 'ballsy' and 'round'. It's a unique sound that others have commented on and I only have a 2 inch H-Pipe system with flow through mufflers on at the moment.

    Ted, I'm not very sold on the whole shorty concept to be honest. I do agree that they would probably be better than stock manifolds and would give it a better sound. I'm going to get headers by Ed to design a set of correct header specs for my motor and get a local shop to mandrel bend and make them using one of his collectors. Or, I might even end up making them myself (ex-welder).

    I've just helped a friend of mine build a nice 3 inch X-Pipe system for his 65 Lemans and it doesn't seem too hard, just a lot of work. Plus I believe that a good set of headers can be worth up to 50 lb/ft which is not a small amount. Add another 50-60 for a decent set of heads and another 20 or 30 with a good dual quad setup and matching cam. Better throw a set of Tom Telesco's Roller rockers and add a posi and some 3:42 gears and it soon starts to add up to a whole lot of fun on the way to work every morning (I insist on driving my Electra every day everywhere).

    All I want to do is surprise the hell out of people with my huge car. Anyone can go reasonably fast in a small car with a big engine. I want to go fast with a big car - it's more relaxing and though I'm not entirely sure, I'd bet the smiles are a little bigger too.
     
  17. Dan K

    Dan K Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the numbers, Cheryl! I was shocked to see how good Gessler's 1.50 intakes flowed compared to Magnotty's 1.94. I wonder if it's worth it to put in the 1.94's if the stock diameter can be made to flow that well. The surprising thing is that Magnotty's exhaust numbers seem significantly better compared to Gessler's. It seems one is better at intake porting, and the other at exhaust. There must be other issues.
    I would love to send a pair of heads to get ported......Who to call, Gessler, Magnotty, Creek or Burek..........Another question comes to mind.....what is the best cam and piston combination considering streetability in a Q-jet 4-speed without power brakes? I don't plan on strip racing, but love to mess with the Saturday night heroes. I read all I can, but this stuff is still confusing. Dan
     
  18. Shaggy

    Shaggy Well-Known Member

    Is that a Nailhead GS running .03 quicker than a Hemi Charger :TU: .
     
  19. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    Go With the Flow!

    Dan,

    None of the flow #s posted were from heads with all-out porting. They are just good representations of how a moderately ported Nailhead compares to a stock Nailhead and various 455 heads. The Magnotty exhaust ports are larger then the Gessler exhaust ports as I have a flange and stubs for 1 Nailhead headers. I am considering sending the Magnotti heads to Mr. Gessler or Mr. Burek to max out the flow of these heads and open up the combustion chamber to the edge of the piston. Since I am already in custom piston territory to keep the compression up, a set of custom J&Es aimed at maintaining 10.5 compression will be ordered once the heads values are established and related to the machine work necessary on the block, rods and deck. And, if I happened upon a stroker crank in the meantime

    Here is some good information concerning camshaft selection: http://www.cranecams.com/camvtfaq.htm . I would think something in the low 240s* at .050 intake duration, and in the high 240s* to low 250s* at .050on the exhaust duration side with a low to mid .500 lift on a wider lobe center (112) would serve you well in the 10 to one compression area. I dont know if that would cause valve to piston interference with stock pistons, and it will require better springs and some guide clearance. It is best to have a cam ground to match your intake, exhaust and head flow, engine displacement, vehicle weight, transmission gearing, and rear gear. Most cam grinders and providers have software that will plot these variables and develop a cam that will make the most of your combination.

    Bill, I hear what you are saying about a fast big car. There used to be a bread truck that ran 13s and a giant beat-up looking Mercury that ran low 12s at the local track. You had to marvel at these!

    Cheryl :)
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2003
  20. Dan K

    Dan K Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Cheryl!
    I understand that you begin to give up low end torque when you open up the heads too much. I wonder if it's worth the extra effort to max them out on a street motor that won't be singing in the higher ranges like a 1/4 mile car. Any thoughts? Thanks, Dan
     

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