Whats it take to get 12.5 or better with a nailhead

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by 66gsconv, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    I'll venture a guess - 250-350 lbs, between frame and body reinforcements. Frame alone, maybe 200-250 lbs...?

    Since my car really needs a frame anyway (welded up so much it looks like a quilt!) I'd be happy to try a Skylark hardtop frame...PM me!

    Had a long talk with Tom today on next steps.....I'll write it up when I get the chance.

    66GSConv -I like what I'm doing too..we're talking low speed racing, but truly a test of what kind of wrench a guy is...ther'll come a day when I go all out and build a motor, but when that motor goes in, the chassis will be maxed out!

    I am really looking forward to Michigan...it's a bucket list kinda thing. I dont care what I run as long as I dont fall on my face, I just wanna hang out with guys who know how to wring every tenth out of a stock set up, and learn. I may have missed he days where my car was a C/Stock contender, but I havent missed everything! Let's go racing!
     
  2. nekkidhillbilly

    nekkidhillbilly jeffreyrigged youtube channel owner

    I have a regular frame id sell.
     
  3. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    I appreciate the offer, but I'd have to find one closer to the Northeast..and truth is I dont want to do the job! Complete frames are a PIA! Not the worst, but close enough! I'd have to have one fall in my lap....
     
  4. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Between a boxed/unboxed frame is approx. 185 or so lbs. You wouldn't want to use a regular frame, especially on a convert.
     
    Custom65GS likes this.
  5. nekkidhillbilly

    nekkidhillbilly jeffreyrigged youtube channel owner

    Cant blame u thought id offer. I figure the flex would make it slower also.
     
  6. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    He might be able to box in a non-boxed frame lighter than the factory did,maybe with some square aluminun tubing bolted in,or some other way that would be lighter?The tubing could even be swiss cheesed along with the frame for extra weight savings,a lot of work,but doable. Or even boxed in with carbon fiber,with the frame swiss cheesed,and the holes plugged with carbon fiber to be made to look stock. :Brow: (I like the carbon fiber way better)

    Every 100lbs less=.1 faster.
     
  7. nekkidhillbilly

    nekkidhillbilly jeffreyrigged youtube channel owner

    Would it pass in his class though
     
  8. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    As long as it "looks" factory,and the car isn't TO far off from the factory weight,if they even weigh the cars,who will know.:Brow:
     
  9. 66larkgs

    66larkgs paul 66gs turbo nailhead

    Paul, I cant wait to see how your set up runs. I think my next build might be somthing like that. Thanks for sharing your build. How close are you to having it back up and running?

    got it back up and running but still working out bugs. Didnt have the angle perfect on the alternator so i had to machine a new bracket and put a 7 degree fly cut on each side of it to get the nose of the alt just to drop enough. i have to finish that and than powdercoat it before i install it and put the belt back on. after that Motor/transmission and rearend are all DONE!!thank god.
    I Worked on it tonight for about 6 hours and it is all the little stuff. Spent most of the time tonight roller a 61" long piece of sheet metal to get the right radius for the cowl hood i am building. spent alot of time tring to recreate the point and inverted strip up the center of the hood with the bead roller. I wont take the car out until it is completley done and still have to finish tucking front bumpers, powdercoat the rest of the chrome and replace all the rubbers for the windows.

    With the engine i did port the heads,intake and carb spacer. i blended the bowl area and smoothed it up and cleaned the throat.I bought a summit universal kit and went to town. spent about 15 hours with the air grinder. It is nice when i am doing cylinder heads with the students because i let them go to town on gasket porting them. i did have the complete engine assemble balance and i run a pretty close to stock gs camshaft. With the turbo it was a better fit than a crazy lift cam and it makes cruising around town enjoyable. One Plus of the turbo is if you dont want to make boost just bleed it off and run it just like a normal car. i have a few different wastegate springs from 3psi, 7psi and a 12 psi. The motor has stock rods and crank but forged Ross pistons. Has a different oil pump pickup and had to do some grinding on the pump to fit the ARP main studs. Valves,guides,seats where all purchased from carmen fasco and machine the .010 and the deck.005. compression in the motor is 9.1 :1 .
    hopefully i will have both bumpers finshed being tucked and fender being chopped up so i can finish priming and gapping for the last time.

    For Pure stocks do they due a compression test? how about running thinner head gaskets? can always debur the valley to help with oil return and hide a scraper in the stock oil pan to chase another 15-20hp? Is no porting allowed with pure stocks?clean up casting flaws but not porting in the heads, intake and exhaust manifolds?? i wouldnt want to change the frame to a non boxed either.
    Big pig, if you want to weld in two female o2 sensors bung 18inches down from the manifold collector i can hook up my FAST dual o2 sensor setup so when you are making runs you know what each bank of cylinders is doing for a/f ratio. nice way to tune and much safer than vacuum gauge. i still like reading plugs but just added safety

    Paul
    66larkgs
     
  10. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    Paul - Your build sounds fantastic, I cant wait to see it on the street (or track!)

    The O2 readings are a great offer and I think I need to do that this year, Tom and I have been talking about it for a while...

    Thanks to everyone who talked me out of the frame change! I actually do know a guy whose done that with a 71 GS, it's not as flexible as you'd think, but definitely more so...I'm just gonna have to find a way to make 3950 lbs work. 200 lbs of that is me, I guess I could drop a few!

    For PMCDR, you cant touch the heads but they actually do allow some compression changes:

    Engine: Must be factory correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed. Dealer-installed engines and dealer-performed engine modifications are not allowed. Casting numbers must be correct for the year and horsepower claimed including intake manifold, heads, and exhaust manifolds. Head modifications are prohibited, including, but not limited to, porting, bowl cutting, gasket matching, oversized valves, etc. Heads can be cut to help achieve the allowed compression over advertised.

    Compression Ratio Limits:

    All Engines 1.5 extra points allowed over advertised. Contact us so we agree on the advertised compression.
    1. Engines with factory dished pistons will be allowed to run either a smaller dish, a flat-top piston, or a small domed piston to achieve the maximum allowed compression.
    2. Engines with factory flat-top pistons will be allowed to run a domed piston to achieve the maximum allowed compression.
    3. Engines with factory domed pistons must run a dome of equal or greater dome volume than stock to achieve the maximum allowed compression ratio.
    4. Heads can be milled and blocks decked within reasonable limits in combination with a), b), or c) above to help achieve the maximum allowed compression ratio.
    I didnt see anythign about a crank scraper though.....


    Tom and I talked for a long time yesterday about doing the heads, making modifications so the oil drains to the back and using thinner head gaskets, etc... but we eventually decided to make the most out of what's there before we spent money. So I'm going on a carbon hunt, decoke the intake valves, GM Top Engine Cleaner and use Techron for the next few months to try to clean it up. The nice thing with the Nailhead is you can pretty much see the whole intake valve with the manifold off, we'll know soon whether carbon is a real issue or not...Tom also figures if the process frees up any stuck rings, etc.. I may see a bump in cranking pressure..I've been running this car hard for the last few years, but before that it saw 65k of show duty, probably never revved higher than 3000 RPM. I feel like an idiot for not even thinking to look at the valves last time the intake was off!

    I'll keep you all posted.
     
  11. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    A gallon of diesel fuel mixed with a tank of gas will help clean any carbon deposits on the valves and in the combustion chambers. With the detregent qualities of dextron 2 a couple quarts of dextron 2 mixed with with a tank of fuel would work just as good. And if you are running stainless steal fuel lines,the corrosive qualities of E-85 mixed 50/50 with a tank of gas will also clean the inside of the engine very very well.(you might want to jet it richer if you do it this way.)

    Speaking of E-85,is there anything in the rules that says you can't run this fuel? When you(or if) you up the compression,E-85 is about 102 octane rated,so you would be able to run more timing,but it has less BTUs than gasoline,so you will need to jet way up,and make an old carter E-85 compatable,the fuel system as well.
     
  12. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Hey Paul, anyway to figure out the hp and tq on your turbo? Anyway to get a ballpark figure? I always wonderd if the old article about Buick getting 700 tq number was true. Also does the turbo move the peak numbers up or down the rpm range any?
     
  13. 66larkgs

    66larkgs paul 66gs turbo nailhead

    I really don't know but can only guess. With this turbo on the turbo map I should be at full boost @2800 so that should be some huge torque numbers under3K. With the rule of .07 x HP = HP per 1 Psi boost. I figure with everything I have done to the engine it should make 350Hp All Day. At 8 Psi that is 546 Hp and if I use 465tq it will make 725tq. But we all know formulas don't take heat, altitude ,air temp, meth injection, or any of that into it. I do have a huge 30x17 inter cooler in the front to keep air temp down and I will meth inject it once I am done spending nessicary money to get it done.I have tried to plan very carefully po I don't blow up my motor so all I can do is wait. I had CSU build me a custom blow thru 4150hp holly that is the cats balls and I have only had to due very little to and for anyone looking into doing this it is the best money you will spend.
     
  14. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Thats awesome. I cant wait to hear how it runs:shock:
     
  15. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    66GSConv - I got your PM's and went back to watch your videos again - that car does keep revs up nice during shifts! Thats the big downfall of the ST300 - I lose 1500 RPM from 1st to 2nd no mater what I do... It looks like the 200R4 is spaced alot nicer. (that is a 200R4, right?)

    What wound up being the issue behind the throttle travel limiting? You should put up the link to your vids again here.... it's a nice running car!
     
  16. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Click on the picture on the second page... I am running a bto tv cable bracket and I found out that when I pushed the set button in to adjust it and got it where I wanted you let out the button and it is locked in place. Well it wouldnt stay looked long and would move and I was only getting 75% throttle. I do have a couple of vides on here and they are at 75% throttle when I had the wife do the vidoes. I wanted to see what the car was doing. I will say that when it gets full throttle its a handfull:shock:.....Rhett, it is a 2004r extreme automatic by Lonnie Diers. with a 2600 stall, 9.5 inch converter:)

    Just wanted to say, Rhett when I keep the tranny in drive it shifts at 5000. It wil shift to 2nd and not lose rpm and hits 3rd right away and sits in third at 4800 burning rubber. thats what its doing in the video on the second page. It was starting to gain a little speed and The rear was starting to wanna come around and I didnt want to go through the yard next door. They have treesv and power poles and stuff
     
  17. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    You like what I'm doing, I like what you're doing....I may save it for the 71, but I want a car where you just punch it at any speed and it goes up in smoke....it has no practical use, but makes me happy. The 65 hooks and is tuned to a razor's edge, but the 71 will break loose at 30 mph and dance all over like water drops in a skillet. It'll cost me a U-Joint (or worse) someday but still makes me laugh like I stole it.. I like that too.
     
  18. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Thats what makes them fun to drive. I am building it to have fun and drive it hard or like you stole it is what it is for. Mine for sure is not a show car. And I have already broke a u-joint and rear yoke with this car. Thet was with the 10.2 it came with. That sucked
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  19. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Holley+turbo+ nailhead = GO FAST :laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  20. Bigpig455

    Bigpig455 Fastest of the slow....

    You know what appeals to me? A Paxton -style bolt on supercharger...I watch those R-2 and R-3 Studebakers run and those things just seem to work really well... Maybe someday!
     

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