Hello, I’m still in the process of learning about how to build a 455, so spare me. Let’s say I buy a running stock 455 or a 455 block with plans for 500hp/tq. When I take the block to the shop, what should I ask for? I’m looking at prices on the shop website and there’s so many different things that can be done (hone, decking, overbore, etc) that I don’t know what to do or where to start. I certainly don’t want to get taken advantage of, which is why I’m asking for help. What should I ask the machine specialist to do to the block? Thank you!
First: if they have built any Buick 455's Second: who and where are they now Third: are they willing to follow the procedures found here on v8buick ie clearances,oil mods,part selection etc 4th: do they have torque plates and or willing to use them 5th: will they stand behind their work, some builders/machine shops have zero what we'll call warranty, ie once it leaves it's yours, others will be there after the install 6th: timeframe tell them to just be honest, how long will it take roughly,....then add 4 to 6mnths ha If they answer the above to your liking, then proceed to the following Full block prep,inspection,testing,baking,blasting,brass plugs etc Lifter valley deburring and main saddle deburring Convert front plugs by the cam to screw in plugs from TA Performance, they are shorter than hardware store stuff. Grind down the 4 locating lugs on the side of the block, this will make header installs easier Align hone the cam and main tunnel after the studs are installed Punch and hone it .038 over or whatever the 470 calls for Run a abrasive flap wheel over the lifter valley, doesn't take much to knock the rough surface down but will greatly increase oil return speed Molnar Rods, Diamond 470 or Wiesco 464 pistons TA grooved Teflon cam bearings, make sure they physically see the instructions that come with them and install them that way Have them spin the cam to check for run-out on the journals, not all cams come to you straight Roll master chain Balancer at the very least get a Romac and SFI flexplate you'll want it all balanced obviously Baffle the oil pan or if budget allows SRE pan Front cover either get one setup/loaded from a qualified board member or get the shim and thrust plate kit and make sure they understand how it should be done, I don't measure them myself I go by the feel of the pump but that's just me Hopefully your crank will just need a polish, try to avoid having any real grinding done unless you just get one from a say TA,JW etc True the deck up or deck it achieve your desired compression obviously a Zero deck is good but for street will require a dished pistons if not you'll be running thick gaskets so plan all that out beforehand Head bolts are fine for 11to1 and alot of times more but studs are always better, if you do go studs get the 12pt nuts Tell them to torque the heads three times with 8hrs or more between them, or just follow TA's procedure located in their catalog, getting one is recc btw as it includes lots of procedures, torque specs etc If budget allows: billet main caps these are a good upgrade but will require align boring and honing. Halo girdle, if you think you may want to up the HP later and want a solid Bottomend for whatever, DO THIS, I especially would do billet caps if I done a Halo seeing how, you have to remove material off the already thin cast caps to install it , the Billet caps will take better to this than the cast.
The pitfall of dealing with many machine shops is that they cut everything to factory nominal book specs, even before you have the mating parts in hand. You are almost always screwed that way. Most aren't willing to work with custom specs and think they know what's best for you...and it's a tough argument being that the customer isn't in a any position to argue or measure things. Many are quick to machine what you bring in rather than suggest an order that ensures success, even if they are doing everything 'right', such as the comprehensive list above. So many times will you hear of a crank being ground first, rather than after all the block work is done and the bearings are torqued in the block for an accurate measurement. The only entity that benefits that is them, by ensuring they secure their work first! That mentality means you are paying for things twice and often going somewhere else. As far as blameless, I had a customer show me a short block that the pistons came up short, random amounts. We're talking .060-.070". Pulling them out revealed several very bent rods, in which he'd paid for them to be inspected before 'rebuilt', and then hung onto new pistons. They had been sourced from a junkyard engine and it was requested to scrutinize them closely. It was tough for the fellow to see the bend(s) being the skirt obscured most of the rod, but they were easily eyeballed with a 12" guessing stick (caliper) before I separated them. A polite call from me, explaining the problem and asking if they would re-hone another set got a very angry response, lol. His equipment is old, he doesn't have a special rod checker (a 12" caliper is $35-150), if they came from a running engine they must be good, they looked fine to him...on and on and on. Everyone in the area fixes that guy's junk and it's not fun to deal with. Reputable retail name, good looking equipment, etc. Even a long list of customers that clearly never check things and have come to expect that 'things just blow up'
That's Great Honest Advise Guys!! ........... Though it just rekindled that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach from what I had to deal with from EVERY so called "Automotive Machine Service" or "Speed Shop" in the Milwaukee area over the last 25 years. I'm now going to be driving to a machine shop more than 2-hours away in one direction hoping for the positive results listed in the last 2 posts. Larry
For that kind of driving time investment, and considering your performance goals, I would bet that creating up the parts and shipping them to a known quality, experienced machine shop would be smart money. There are several available, Jim Wiese being one of them. I have a 30 year relationship with my local machine shop and would recommend them as well. LTL shipping is not all that expensive. I bet you could ship both ways for 600 or less.
Tom, I am a firm believer in meeting with people face-to-face to try and feel out the trust factor. Obviously it hasn't proven to be 100% successful yet but nevertheless there is no way I'm sending thousands of dollars of critical engine components to a shop that I have never seen, or owner/operators I have never met. That's just me though. I also have had so much bad luck with shipping that the drive is worth my time for peace of mind things got there and there is not any question as to their condition when they got there. I know and trust Mike at TA, Jim at Tri-Shield, Scotty at PeeGee, but am trying one more shot at semi-local success. Dan Zepnick, and Ross Roman recommended this facility and I value their opinions. I guess my original point was to fortify to the OP how important it is to find the right shop as described in the first 2 replies. Once again, ..... that's just me. Larry
Exactly Larry, you can tell alot by people's facial expressions and body language when expressing your concern on matter, lot of people hear just fine but listen terrible. If they get irritated with your questioning then simply move on , I had a machine shop tell me one time that they've done this, that built that etc, I simply told him that's cool but they haven't proven anything to me. You gotta give people a chance that I understand but they gotta earn the chance also imo
Yanchik, why not tell us where you live, and then get a recommendation for a shop that knows Buick engines?
LOTS of info given to me by @hugger (thank you!) has given me more anxiety than I originally started with lol. Never in my dreams would I have thought it would be this much thought and work into machining a block. But then again, im a noob, so everything is “easy” until someone breaks it down to me and hits me with the reality. @LARRY70GS I’m located in Brooklyn, NY. But I also don’t mind driving 100 miles or so to find a good engine, machine shop, etc. I know it won’t help my case, but I’m on a budget (3,000-4,000). I’m really torn between buying a running 455 (driving it and checking it before having the owner pull it out) or buying a block and slowly building it as money allows. Again, I appreciate all the help you guys give me. Don’t know where I’d be without y’all
Lots of Buick Guys up that way they can put you on to a shop that is capable I'm sure, just pick your intended use of the engine realistically, alot of the stuff I mentioned doing isn't the gospel and certainly not "needed" for a 500hp 455 to live a happy life but Its better to go ahead and build a stout Bottomend if you think you will get tired of the 500hp and want more
I completely agree with you. Just like anything else, it’s always good to build a solid base before adding bigger workloads.
McBetts engine on Long Island. He did Jason’s (buick64203) and BrunoD’s engine. https://m.yellowpages.com/holbrook-...m.yp.com-ce7a4e11-f13c-486a-a8d9-1d16a008c9e6
My advice is to ask the shop for an estimate of what work is needed and then you can decide to go for it or pay them for thier time and move on. This way the shop can tell you what overbore, crank cut, etc is needed BEFORE you order any parts...
Beware of the big grocery list the bigger the list the more it is going to cost. Buicks do need special attention to stay together, but that need isn't as great for a mild build as it is for a full on race engine. If you are going to throw some slicks on your car and go racing, the more you need to do to help it live. If all you are going to do is play around on the street and keep the RPMs under 5800 the basic oiling mods and recommended bearing clearances should be just fine. Good Luck Bob H.
Thank you! I will defintely call them once the time is right. If you dont mind me asking, where does the Wizard do his engine machining?
Tri shield Performance. http://www.trishieldperformance.com/ http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?th...larrys-motor-complete-and-dyno-tested.252641/
JW's machinist. I was pretty impressed with the way he moved my cylinder bores around to maximize wall thickness. Is it Ron Flood? Cedar Machine Service?
