what is normal head temp with IR gun?

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by bullheimer, Sep 15, 2016.

  1. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    More importantly than giving up power...the power given up IS LITERALLY the excess heat your cooling system has to deal with.

    The sole purpose of my suggestion to advance the timing was to check things with your temp gun in order to determine the problem.
    If it changed your readings, it would have proved some things.
    I wasn't suggesting that you leave it there permanently, nor was I offering a detailed diagnostic approach.
    It was flavored by your original post pertaining to your temp gun readings and concerns.
     
  2. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    thanks 8ad f85. by way of Larry: Esp wkillgs!! i think you NAILED it! (pu).

    my Chiltons only goes back to 1965!! so i have set it to that spec thinking all nailheads would be the same, even tho i know they went from 401 to 425. when i first got it the timing was actually ATDC!, when i reset it to 3 BTDC, i got rid of a LOT of the overheating. it took MUCH longer to overheat. so tomorrow morning i will set it to 12. i fully expect it to be driveable now! wow, who'd a thunk it?:Dou:

    Much Grass! I'll let ya know. as an aside, would that much retard cause excessive blowby out my downdraft tube? i'm getting gassed, and there are no holes in my exhaust. but the exh pipe ends about 4 inches short of the back bumper. THANKS TO ALL!!! AWESOME! **** i have like 6 pages of diagnostics on various web sites, and nobody caught that discrepancy in timing! you guys ROCK! i will also ad my car/year to my sig!! dammit!

    oh yeah, if the timing is different from 62 to 65, can anybody tell me what the Dwell should be? I WILL be SURE to pencil in the right specs into my manual!. thx.
     
  3. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    Bull,,, 63 is the first year that the gubment made the factories change the timing to ''retard'' timing because of emissions....after that the rodders had to go back and use the factory timing for previous years....:Brow:
    in a nailhead dist the things to watch are ,, is the advance diaphragm good??,, is the mechanical advance working right?? and is the little bushing on the diaphragm arm still there and good....if not it will over advance....:Brow: or under advance,, or not at all... depending on which is causing problems.... also there is the issue of the timing mark ring coming loose and slipping out of sinc... :Brow: but once you are familiar with those things it aint near so confusing.... :Smarty:
     
  4. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    ok, i get all those things that can go wrong. i dont have a tag on my carb. which is a 2bbl. maybe it got tossed thru the years.

    i am guessing Dwell will stay the same? anyway i set it at 30 before i re-set timing.

    godDAmmit! i wiped off the grease and looked closer and sure enough the first mark is 0, the second is 5, and the last one, is TWELVE after all. I had it set on the second mark, i thought was 3 but it's 5. i didnt look close enough to see the 12 on the last mark. So i JUST set it on 12! IF i still have overheating issues, do you think even more advance might be in order? Another thing i did was check my points, which , strangely enough i have not done since i bought it!! They look good, just a tad of carbon, no pitting. Is it possible anything in there, other than a properly operating vacuum mechanism, could affect temp? (i should have mentioned that i'm pretty sure i am running too rich, which won't make it hot. i am getting gassed out, like i said, i think from the downdraft tube)

    as for the timing when advance kicks in, it goes off the chart and i have to guess at whatever that is, because their certainly are no marks beyond 12. when i rev it some, it looks like it is somewhere around where a 30 mark might be. my Dwell stays steady as i rev it up and down, that's a good thing. I reset my idle too, the fast idle cam had it at around 800 rpm. Now it's down to about 630. I know the book says 525, but i'm comfortable with it at 100 higher. by george, i think i've got it!!! Thanks again to everybody. I can't wait to get this thing out on the road, other than they have just repaved it and there are rocks just all over the place on I-5, so i am staying the hell away from that with my new windshield. But i have frontage road all the way to Conway, so adios mofos! i'll be back with a temperature report!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  5. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    No. Please re-read all of my comments on this. Set to 12* or so for the sole purpose of using your heat gun as a diagnostic tool...to see if/what the effect of temp. change.
    Also, rich with late timing heats things up real good.
    Also, advancing the timing from a retarded state can greatly enhance the atomization, thus burning the fuel rather than passing large unburned droplets out of the mixture to add even more heat to this runaway process.

    You can mark your balancer to check timing beyond the last mark.
    There are many ways if you look around but the way I find easiest is to wrap the cm side of a sewing tape around the dampner.
    10% of that is 36* (Ex. 54 cm = 5.4).

    Please peruse the site for timing settings and tuning rec.'s.
    Sounds like you are on your way!
     
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?63475-Power-Timing-your-Buick-V8

    See, that is why I wrote the above thread 11 years ago. It's very simple to measure and adjust your total timing. The method depends on whether you have a dial back or conventional timing light. Total timing is a combination of initial timing, mechanical timing, and vacuum timing. At wide open throttle there is very little if any vacuum, so your timing is the sum of the initial timing + the mechanical timing. At light throttle, vacuum is high, so the vacuum advance adds timing. There is much more to optimizing your ignition timing than setting the initial timing and calling it done.

    Dwell affects timing, timing does not affect dwell.
     
  7. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    SO JUST going by my temp gauge now, cruising around it just pretty much stays at 190 but getting on the hiway it jumps up to 230 at 70 and pretty much just stays there! when i turn it off there is NO dieseling, and it starts right back up, even at 240, which is where it went right after i turned it off. it must have been blowing coolant because i saw a water drop on the frame. haven't had a chance to let it cool and see how much water i need to add tho. needless to say the red light came on at 218 like it's spozed to but i am wondering now if 230 just aint normal.??? the IR gun, after what, five minutes, just read everything at much lower than the 230. top of radiator only 220. the heads above the ex mannys all below 220. seems like this thing just likes 230 degrees. but obviously, it can't be normal or the idiot light wouldn't be coming on at 218!
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  8. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Normally, I would say that sounds like the radiator is undersized for the job. When a car runs hot at highway speeds, the radiator is usually to blame. There is also the timing issue. You need to measure your cruise ignition timing.
     
  9. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    Air flow NOT going through the radiator but maybe around it??? Are the sides of the radiator sealed at the radiator support or are the side seals missing???


    Tom T.
     
  10. doc

    doc Well-Known Member

    It is good to see a guy that is willing to get in there , get hands on,, and try to learn... that is the kind that it is fun to mentor.... boosts your knowledge, confidence and abilities.... :TU:
     
  11. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    i'll look larry. did it again today, same result even tho 20 degrees cooler day. after all that timing work. and have to getta nother bottle of lead additive for the gas i had to put in today drivin it down th road. i'm thinking asking for shroud referrals right now .... or electric fans? 2 of them? you think head gasket is out of the question ????? say yes
     
  12. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    It would be helpful if you could be more specific about what you tried and how you left things.
    What changes did you observe with your temp gun after trying various things?
    Did moving the timing around have any notable effect on temps?
    That temp gun is a powerful diagnostic tool.

    Any pro would have this figured out inside of an hour if it were in person.
    That $100 for the hour might seem like a better value than throwing parts at it blindly .

    [sorry about the attitude, seems like you are almost there and giving up on looking]
     
  13. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    1st thing i did was take it to the radiator shop. they did the dye test. green dye turned green blue after about 15 minutes. flushed both radiator, opened a plug in the block too. not alot of crud came out which surprised me. biggest change was going from the stock 4 blade to a 7 blade fan. running lead and about 1/2 alcohol free gas. radiators free flowing and the stat is new. that's all the parts i've put in. the shop put in a granular looking stop leak they swear by. didn't change anything.

    moving timing hasnt had that much affect, but on another site a guy suggests setting adv. timing around 38, and let the initial timing land where it may. still wouldn't mind finding a shroud somewhere.

    maybe i got to try the timing at @38 total timing and the saran wrap over the radiator and maybe take it back to the radiator shop. my temp gauge is more useful i think than the IR gun. i noticed distance from the object changes the temp reading dramatically. trying to do taxes. have to work tomorrow. storm due. wont be driving the car for a bit.
     
  14. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    Just to cap this story off, i replaced the radiator and that was the cause and the cure. Needed trans cooling line adapters for them, as well as 1.75x1.5" hoses upper and lower to get the radiator to work. But just drove it yesterday 70 mph, back to town after a 10 mile trip and the temp stayed at 170 the whole time. sometimes i guess the first thing you think of turns out to be right. man, the time i've wasted trying to avoid a lousey $175 radiator.
     
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  15. Aussie V8

    Aussie V8 Well-Known Member

    Where on the Nailhead is the best location for the temp gauge sender unit ?
     
  16. bullheimer

    bullheimer Well-Known Member

    theres a plug in the top rear of the engine i'm not sure if head or block. but there is a plug there for one. i don't believe any reducer was required. a S-W mechanical bulb screwed right in
     
  17. Aussie V8

    Aussie V8 Well-Known Member

    Thankyou. On the pair of heads I have, one has a ( stuck ) plug and the other has a threaded hole which would have taken the original sender I imagine. Trouble is I got this engine in pieces and don't know which head was left or right which gives the option of rear or front sender location. On older cars I've worked on the sender is usually close to the thermostat housing. My 1929 engine traditionally had a problem with overheating rear cylinders so my sender is on the rear there.
    Is there going to be any significant differences in Nailhead block temps for a front or rear instal ?
     
  18. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    The head with the plug is the drivers, left, side. To get the plug out heat the head/plug in that area with propane/mapgas. No nec. to get red hot just hot enough to melt a wax candle. Melt the wax over/around the plug & let cool. Use a long 3/8ths. breaker bar & remove plug.
     
  19. Aussie V8

    Aussie V8 Well-Known Member

    I saw that wax method used on You Tube with frozen wheel nuts It looked convincing but didn't really know what to think if it was a set up or something o_O
    I must give it a try one day. Just had a look at the water cross over and there is a threaded hole just above the thermostat. That would be the sender location and the hole in the head is for heater tube ?
     
  20. telriv

    telriv Founders Club Member

    You mean BELOW he thermostat? That is for the heater hose connection. Right FRONT of the head is the temp. sender. "54-"55-'56 used the LEFT rear of the head for temp. sender location.
     

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