Well, I kinda won... (long post)

Ouch! I just touched my screen and burned my finger. lol :grin:

My daughter's boyfreinds father has a turbo trans am he claims beat a porsche one day. Maybe the porsche driver wasn't really trying. I should post this under the bullcrap story forum.:grin:

 

I want to make a long explanation short. First of all, Rob's GS is not stock. Secondly, my '76 century was not built for speed, if i want it to go fast, i will make it go fast. Thirdly, if you think pontiacs are the best cars, why don't you go ahead and make a forum for pontiacs, fourthly, I know a-lot of people who can take a trans-am and think nothing of it, fithly, i have my own opinions, you have yours, but untill hell freezes over, no-one will convince me that pontiacs are the fastest, greatest cars that ever drove the streets of L.A., and finally, this is a buick forum full of people who drive buicks, so let's get along and not fight or argue. I don't want to sound like a jerk or a Mr.Know it all, so how about make friendly comments and act like buick people.:TU:

Thanks

-Cody

 

Jacob - as a Longtime Driver and Fan of the 68 / 69 cars I Want to welcome you to the fold :beer You've got a GREAT car and something to be proud of.

I've been driving these cars since I went to college in 1980 and have owned quite a few of them over the years. My '69 Convert. is going on 11 years with me this coming season.

First off.....I'll tell you this - While that cowl induction hood looks Bad to the Bone (I really like the look) it also kinda says "Im Bad to the Bone" about the cars' performance to everyone who pulls up next to you. There's nothing wrong with having that look on a stockish performing car - but you are going to have to accept that most modern cars like a '04 Maxima with 265HP can and will probably take you.

Im not putting your car down - Im stating facts. Take your car to a drag strip and run a few 1/4 mile passes so YOU know how fast your car is. Its something important to know if you plan on "mixing it up" on the street....which is something I don't advise

From my knowledge of these cars and the trans and gearing you've said yours has - I'd be willing to bet you've got at best a high mid-16 second car. LS1-equipped Trans Ams / Camaro's were at WORST mid-14 second cars....and at best mid-13 seconds RIGHT FROM THE FACTORY. Earlier LT1 models weren't that far behind. Heck, My '94 RoadMaster WAGON with the LT1 can click off Sub-16 second passes factory stock !!!

Shrug off the Stoplight antics for a while and just Cruise in STYLE - Style like No TransAm of Rice will EVER have.....

.....and start to make a plan on how to get your cars performance up - in 1 year...2 years....3 years to where you want to be

Why a Plan ?? Several reasons. First - to get an Idea of what its going to cost but second, and more importantly so you can do things ONCE

By this, I mean that if you plan on staying with the 350" motor then you can build up your "package" around what a decent street/strip 350" can handle. If your ultimate goal is to have a 455" in there someday, then spending money now on the 350" drivetrain doesn't make sense and you'd be better off saving longer for your goal.

For Example - Right now you are probably giving up at least 1 second with the trans / gears / rear in your car. I'd bet another .5 with stock exhaust.

If your staying with a 350, you could put in a TH350 trans, 3.23 Posi 10-bolt posi and 350 headers and exhaust. a Nice aluminum intake and a great carb will help alot too.

BUT if your goal is to have a 455 in a few years, you wasted money on the trans, rear, headers, carb and intake too - its like you're gonna have to do EVERYTHING over again.

Its nice to think - and you hear it here too - that "I'll just drop a 455" in and go 12's" but thats not the case. The Motor is JUST ONE piece of the "Package".

.....and to show you I've been there and know this from experience I'll post my progression with my '69GS400 Convertible I have now.

1993 - bought car - bone stock 400"/TH400 tranny excpet for B4B intake, Non-Posi 2.93 gears, Stock exhaust manifolds and stock dual exhaust. Best Pass - 15.83 (later I found a magazine test from 1969 that ran the exact setup and turned a 15.8 in their test !!)

94-95 - same setup but carb rebuilt and tuning - best time 15.38

1996 - 455" .030 over (462") motor installed with stock Stage1 heads and KB118 cam - A good street rebuild . Best time - 14.85

WHOA !!! I spent all that time and money and installed The Almighty 455 ...only picked up .5 seconds ?!?!?!?!?

I had only ONE piece of the PACKAGE.....and Everything else became the weak link

early 1997 - replace stock exhaust with TA Jett-hot coated headers and mandrel-bent 2.5 exhaust and UltraFlow Mufflers. Best pass - 13.94 !! Ippicked up OVER 9/10ths of a second with exhaust work alone !!

late 1997 - Replace stock non-posi 2.93 rear with 3.42 10-bolt Posi. Best time - 13.6

Early 1998 - Street / Strip TH400 Tranny rebuild and add 2300 rpm stall converter. Also switch to HEI Ignition. Best Pass - 13.28

Around May, the motor gave in to Cam Bearing failure due to RTV silicone blocking the pick-up screen in the oil pan. Silicone probably got there while not being cautious while scraping heads for new valve cover gaskets and getting down through the oil returns.

This time, everything in the engine was replaced with TA parts for a solid Street / Strip motor. Between motor parts and machine shop I spent ~$6,000. Then I added a set of Gessler Race-Ported heads, had the Tranny freshened and added a lower gearset to the tranny too......and Ohhyeah !! Had a frame-on Resto performed on the body / chasis and a nice repaint :Brow:

1999 - Fresh out of the "box" 12.89. Tuning and new carb - best time 12.39 !!

2000 - Break 10-bolt 3.42 and replace with stock 2.93 rear. Later in the year, Twist up the stock driveshaft. Replace with Custome HD shaft and U-Joints. Best Pass 12.42

2001 - Get Married, Buy House....need I say more ??

2002 - 12-bolt 3.08 Posi built and installed along with Metco Upper and lower rear control arms Best Pass - 12.54

2003 - nothing changed. Best Pass - 12.66

I Built this car with these GOALS in mind.....from Day1

1) Be able to run Pump Gas all day long without any problems
2) Be able to cruise Cross-Country or Cross town - reliably without a headache
3) Be AS FAST AS POSSIBLE while observing 1 & 2 above

I've never had slicks on the car and I only race once or twice a year and then only a few passes each time.

To sum up - dropping in a 455 did little to improve my performance. It wasn't until I had a complete Package that I started to see the serious improvements. Also, as the power level increased - so did breakage of parts that weren't upgraded to handle it

Lastly - When I had my MINT looking Skylark, which sounded stock, EVERYONE and their MOTHER threw Rev's at me......and like your story I often didn't stand a chance even when I did try. Did it bother me ?? A little....but that car was for Cruisin in Style. Now in the GS Convert. ....they hear the Bad to the Bone Idle of the lopy 463" and usually dont even make eye contact - and If they do its usually to give me a :TU:


Be Safe....Drive Safe....Enjoy your Ride.....and develop YOUR Goals for the car and work that into your package.

 

That was very interesting, Alan. You picked up the most performance with the new exhaust. I never knew that exhaust modification would make that big of a difference. 9/10 is nothing to sneeze at!:Brow:

And the gearing surprisingly did little. It sounds like that was a gamble and you had to run it with the new gears before you knew what to expect. Perhaps lower gears help the 1/8 mile the most. :bglasses:

 

Alan, you did a great job of explaining. You even gave me some tips for the future:TU: Yeah, i guess it ain't all about the engine-drive-train, tranny, etc.

Thanks

-Cody

 

Exhaust system improvements are almost always the BIGGEST bang for the buck!:TU: Especially when converting a small-block car to a 455 in my opinion.:Brow: Fuel system being next!:TU:

 

Again....I want to stress the "Complete Package" meaning all drivetrain components - as opposed to just one piece of the puzzle.

Putting the Big Block in - alone - showed very little improvement for the money spent. When the exhaust was done it revealed what a HUGELY weak link it was in the package. I NEVER expected that much improvement .... but I doubt that If I put that exhaust on the stock 400" it would have been even half of that.

Im not sure If you're referring to the switch from 2.93 non-posi to 3.42 Posi....or from the 3.42 10-bolt Posi to the 3.08 12 bolt posi.

The reason the switch from 2.93 to 3.42 didn't imrove GREATLY is that even with the addition of Posi, the car always had bad wheelspin at Full Throttle of the line. ....Still does too. Slicks should help that - never ran them before for fear of breaking the rear (broke anyway.... ) but now with the Stout 12-bolt I think I'll be trying this year.

The reason I went with 3.08 instead of 3.42 was mostly because new 3.42 Ring and pinion gears aren't available (or weren't 2 years ago). It was either 3.08 or I believe 3.73. Being ALOT more of a highway / Street car than a Go-Fast only car the decision was simple.

Also - with the lower 1st and 2nd gearset I have in the TH400, WITH the 3.08s it makes first look like 3.42s, and second look like 3.23s.....So its kinda like the best of both worlds - 3.42's for launch and 3.08's for final drive / cruisin'. Id really like to try some 3.31's or 3.42's though and see how much lost ET I could regain.

Glad I could Help Cody....Im no expert but I've got some lessons to teach those wanting to learn

.....It IS all about the Engine-drive-train, tranny, etc BUT not any one piece by itself.

THIS is the most important lesson to learn....and I learned it from the Buick Community. ALL the pieces of the PACKAGE have to work together - each complimenting the other - to extract the most from it all.

In my case, My rear gear choice of 3.08 is FAR from optimum as well as my converter stall speed. If I put 3.73's in and added a 3000-3500rpm stall converter, bolted on some slicks and went BONSAI I'm willing to bet I'd be in the upper 11's easily.

That is a sacrifice that, right now, Im willing to make. I'd MUCH rather be able to, Say, Fill up the Gas tank, Drop the top :bglasses: throw a bag of clothes in the trunk and head off on a 1,000 mi trip to the Nationals. No Way would you be able to do that with the gear / converter change above.

Would you believe my car gets over 16mpg and tach's 2650 RPMs @ 70 MPH ??? After a 2 hr. drive, hit the starting lanes and rip off a 12.66 ?? thats exactly what I did last year at the Englishtown Labor day event.

THATS what MY package is all about.....now.

What would I like to change in the future ?? Maybe a TriShield SwitchPitch converter AND a GearVendor Overdrive.....and 3.73 gears

Ohhh !! and get rid of the noisy electric fuel pump in favor of TriSHields New HV Mechanical pump - this one is already in "The Plan" for this year

Set a Goal.....Make a Plan to determine what Complete Package and actions will get you to your goal.....then Work your Plan over time.

This applies to more than just cars too :Smarty:

 

Alan makes a good point, and it should be noted with everyone....I know my Buick 350 isnt going to be a 12 or 13 second car without droppin some serous money at it, but that is not why I purchaced this Buick. The main goal for my car is to be a classy eye catcher that I can drive and enjoy on the streets....when I get the looks from Stangs, TA's and Camaro's...I just simply say "built for comfort, not speed" or "take it to the track, dont race on the streets". Besides, I too have a killer Trans Am (1979) and a 2002 Mustang, so I know how these cars are. My friend recently built up an 87 Cougar XR7 thats now running low 12's :eek2: .....but he dropped some serious cash in it :laugh: . Anyway, my buick and my olds are nothing but street cruisers that gets thumbs up where ever I go, the trans am....well thats another story ....lets just say its a pure bred racecar thats driven on the streets for show purposes and the occasional racing at the track :laugh: . So the way I see it, I have my 2 muscle cars, and I have my 2 street cruisers and I enjoy driving them all the way there ment to be driven and built :TU: ....Oh and yes, my Buick 350 does some awsome burnouts on the street and ran a time of 16.1 stock.....gears, intake and a cam will be going in soon, but only to liven it up a bit without loosing streatability...should be done by september for the Buick meetup at E-town :TU:

 

Alan- Thank you for the insight. My only fear with the cowl originally was that it would look too agressive for my car's capabilities, but rarely do I race and when I do, it's not usually with anything too special. I hope no one thinks I think of myself as a serious street racer, because I certainly do not view myself that way.
The car is only a daily driver for now, and being that I'm 17 and do not know what lies ahead as far as college, I do not know what will become of the car for the future and that has so far prevented me from making any serious modifications to the cars performance. The last few weeks I've been thinking about the new tranny (TH350) and a new gear for the back, but my thoughts change daily. Alan, is it cool with you if I contact you when I start making some serious decisions?

Jacob

 

Feel free to contact me anytime ..... we're all here to help. If I personally dont have the answers you need I'm sure colectively we'll be able to get you pointed in the right direction.

I cant tell you how cool I think it is that you're starting off at 17 driving one of these great cars.....that is EXACTLY what I did back in 1980. I NEVER would have thought back then that my '69 Skylark way back then would turn into a life long hobby / obsession. In Fact....I really thought it was a turd when I first got it !!! Mine had the straight 6 cyl. engine !!! I drove that car through 5 years of college and even 2 years afterward finally getting rid of it with almost 370,000 miles on it !!!

In the last 20 years I've probably owned about 9 or 10 of them. I recently sold a mint Little old lady Skylark as well as another GS400 Conv. to a good friend for his son to have.

These cars grow on you....but they can also be frustrating as driving a 30+ year old car tends to find things that need fixing. Its a small price to pay for the pleasure they give back.....plus its alot cheaper than spending 25K or more on some new junk box that will be a POS in a few years.

 

You and I have a lot in common, Alan. I've had mine all my life too. It's become a part of me. My mom used to say the Buick is flowing in my blood.:laugh:

 

I love the body-style of the '68 and '69 skylark/GS's. Very awesome cars if i may say so.

-Cody

 

I know what you mean.....I grew up as a kid riding around in the back of my parents' '69 SportWagon 400......can still remember
laying in the back with all that cool glass to look up through

:beer :TU: :beer

 

What's wierd is that I am 44 now and many of the parts I have on my car and most of what I have stored are from my dads old car that I used to ride in. Sometimes I look at them and think to myself that I was only 7 or 8 years old when I used to ride in that car with my dad.

I remember when he used to race it on the street and blow the doors off all the other cars. He wasn't afraid of anything with the Riv. I remember one particular morning on the way to high school when he spanked a Camaro really good and the 'ol 425 was only hitting on 7 cylinders. Pretty impressive!:grin:

 

Don't feel bad about getting pulled by an LS1 powered car, most of those cars are severely under-rated and usually lay down their advertised flywheel HP at the rear wheels! I'm still working on getting the 66 where I need it to be (low 12s-high 11s) but it's nice having the Vette with its' stock motor that is a solid 11-second car with stock internals. I wish I could get my 66 to run like the Vette without going into the motor but the technological advances have made that just a dream. The 66 is more fun to work on though...