waterpump to timing cover issues

Hello all. My timing cover had 3 of the small bolts broken off in it (all without the heads). 1 was an original bolt that wouldn't come loose the other 2 were new home depot bolts whos heads twisted clear off. I was buttoning up everything after changing my timing chain and was gonna take my chances with the 1 original bolt that was stuck. When the 2 new homedepot bolts broke i removed the cover again and went to a machine shop. He was able to drill out only 1 of the newer bolts.

My question is can i get away with the loss of these 2 small bolts? all the large bolts are free and were replaced and i chased all the holes with a tap. 1 is located at the top of the waterpump lefthand side, the other is at the right of the long bolt that goes through the pump and cover into the block. Am i ok to proceeds?? Or do i need a new cover now? its a 65 401

 

Yep, what Jason says,,,, that thing has to hold almost 20 psi....you definitly need all the bolts....I dont know how good the machine shop you took the thing to was ,,, but ,,, It sounds like they botched the job.....if the cover is secured from any movement, and then the drill bit is secured from any movement , and the bolt shaft cut at 90 deg. to the center line... then dead center punched, and drilled starting small and working up to the critical diameter.... the thing should be saved by then tapping to the next larger size bolt..... but it is absolutely critical that every phase of the operation be centered and held steady,,,,as in a drill press,,,, not by hand....:Brow: :Brow:

 

he said b4 he started that if one of those extractors were broken also they are just as hard as the drill bits. My first go at it i did break a extractor i think... its been months and i stopped working on it since work picked up big time. I was hoping luck would be on my side.

He did mention i should go to a tool and die shop? they have something the electrifies the 2 metals and disintegrates the bolt?? He said something like this.. Was called a egr? or dvr? something like that... Has anyone heard of this? and thank you for your replies

 

You probably mean EDM (Electric Discharge Machining.) And yes that would do it but for what you'd pay to make an electrode and set it up on an EDM you could buy another cover at least based on the EDM rates I'm familiar with.
A good mechanic can remove the broken extractor using conventional means. I've done it by using a high quality small center punch and pulverizing the extractor. They are so hard they will shatter when struck then you can go back to drilling it out.

 

Yep, I have heard of it and actually done some de rusting myself, I dont know why I did not think of it..... basicly it is electroplating in reverse.... google electric de rusting and it will tell you how to do it better than I can.... probably will work good and it is simple .... all you need is a trickle charger , some leads and a piece of iron rod or big nail... and some distilled water and washing soda or baking soda to mix in the water....put it in a plastic container... pour in the water and hook it up like the instructions say and stand back and watch....probably your best easiest solution....

 

Any good machine shop can remove the broken extractors. A carbide end mill is harder than the extractor. Carbide drills are available to.
I would find a true machine shop or Machinists. With the cover removed they can easily set up the broken bolts/extractors and machine the holes perfect.

 

Next time try the reverse drill bits. I put off buying some for years and I wish I had taken the advice earlier. I have broken extractors and taps. They suck

Sorry to hear of your pain. New covers are a good investment if you plan on keeping the car for awhile. Not cheap though. $150?

 

Thank you for all the help.

I'm gonna take the cover to another shop b4 i give up on it completely. I did look at the electrode method to de rusting parts before, i was gonna do this for small parts that can be submerged i guess.

And finally I will look for reverse drill bits.. had enough of extractors for now. Thanks again for the replies.

 

Good call. As satated, any decent shop should be capable of helping you.
Let us know.

 

Extractor can be removed with a good center punch and a magnet. The extractors are brittle and you can fracture them. The magnet will help you to extract the broken pieces. Done this many times. People tend to turn these at a slight angle and break them. It is best to get as close to the extarctor end as possible and make sure you are centered. Just my thoughts.

 

I am really having a hard time with this timing cover. I call machinists and have of them dont know what a timing cover is before they say "cant do it"... I brought it to 2 different mechanics, both say that the previous machinist drilled off center for one of the holes so they dont wanna do it for fear of mistakes. I can see it now i'm gonna be buying another cover because the mistakes of the first machinist. Cant do nothing else till this gets buttoned up, I'm at a stalemate here.

 

Get a dremel tool and some carbide burrs and cut the bolts out, very slowly, and carefully... you can save this cover... but you will have to be patient....

 

Take the timing cover with broken off bolts or easy outs to a good welding shop they will use a tig welder and have that bad boy out in a heart beat I have done many myself .Piece of cake :TU:


Wilber

 

Jamiel let us know when it is up and running:3gears: .
You will just need to get grade 5 or better bolts and use a small amount of anti seize on each small bolt. Let me know how that cover works ,should be in today or Friday's mail:TU: .

 

Thanks to everyone for all the help given to me to remedy this issue. Seems like every "new" classic car i own I learn something new and go further into DIY land. I've owned quite a few also and they all had different problems up to this point...

Special thanks to John, man I slapped that bad boy on the car the same afternoon it arrived!! Unfortunately i may be taking it back off to paint it unless I do it while on the motor... The car probably wont be running till mid/late sept now. During the time i had these issues with the timing cover i decided to clean up the engine bay and since removed the carb for rebuild, manifold for cleaning and paint, and everything else front of the motor was out because of the cover anyway. I'm at a serious degreasing stage. soaking things in evaporust, wirewheel/cupping parts etc...

Thanks Again everyone...

 

I broke off some bolts when i took off the timing cover, i drilled them out and re-tapped the holes, it worked and is still working.