My son is trying to build a 231 cu.in. V-6 engine for his car. He has a 1987 Oldsmobile Delta 88 and recently purchased an engine from a 1988 Delta 88. He wants to put a turbo from an 84-85 Buick Grand National on it and run it through an intercooler. Now I know what you might be thinking. Why is this Oldsmobile on a Buick website? I am a long time Buick Club of America member and this is a Buick engine. He is trying to get more horsepower and turn grandpa's car into something with a little more get up and go. Neither of us have extensive knowledge of what we are attempting but do have friends that are helping a lot. I have some questions regarding pistons, rods and crankshafts as well as what to do with the heads and the cam. We want to do this engine as good as we can while trying to watch the dollars as it is my son (18 years old) who is paying for it. This is why I am reaching out to all of my fellow Buick members in hopes that someone has knowledge of such a build and can be of assistance so that we can make his dream car come to life. I can be reached at buick01@charter.net and will wait for your replies. Thank you for taking the time to read this and help in any way you can. Al and Jeff
itd for sure be better to get an 86-87 turbo, as well as stock turbo, fuel system and intake, he could probably piece together that kit for under 700, and id save up for some grand national rods and maybe pistons.. and youll need to get a beefier transmission if its going to be a turbo car, youll need an ecu as well... and a wiring harness and it may be easier to buy a gn motor complete with tranny and harness, you could get one for around 3 grand, or you could always sell the car and get a regal or turbo regal. It sucks that he already has the engine, maybe a buick 350 would be a better idea? you can get one for cheap, motor mounts are the same, less wiring. good luck with whatever you decide
Pre 90's FWD probably not the way to go... I hope I don't flamed for saying so, but the older FWD cars are a just not as adaptable as the RWD vehicles or the newer FWD cars. While with enough time and money ANYTHING is possible, in the real world money & time are limited. With a lot of tinkering you probably could make get a "turbo" 87 Delta to perform better than stock, but it would be MUCH easier to change the project NOW into something more do-able. I'd suggest you and your son do some research on trying to replicate the 1987 LeSabre T-Type which is much closer to the Delta 88. Though it mostly a "Gran Touring" handling package with nice cosmetics, it is also MUCH more achievable. What I can lay out for you is pretty much what I did to my 1986 Century T-Type back in 1989, before it got stolen & totalled. It was a sweat ride and a great "daily driver" as my 1987 Regal T-Type was/is just too much for Chicago roads/winters. This is laid out "step wise", meaning that if you start where I did and work your way down you will only see the power go up and you won't have to re-do stuff to go the next level. I suppose you could call this a recipe. I have never written it down before, mostly becuase I did not think anybody would bother trying to wrench on a older GM FWD 3.8 SFI V6... If your son is like I was back when I was in in high-school & college he is gonna want to get more low end torque ASAP. The first thing you have to do is lose the junky stock air filter/silencer set-up, it is a huge torque killer-- just like on the turbo cars that will have INSTANT power gains with only minimal downside (noise mostly, which is a good thing !). You go simply BOLT ON a filter/cold air kit intended for 86/87 Turbo Buicks. If that whets his appetite for bolt ons you can next move to the intake side. The "dog house" or upper intake plenum/manifold on the FWD cars is very similar to the that used on the Intercooled 86-87 GN/T-Type, so you could probably bolt on or adapt the oversized throttle plate and use an oversized mass airflow sensor. More "free" horsepower without so much as a valve cover gasket lifted. Next you can "power tune" the throttle postion sensor -- all the magazines of the 1987 era have the details on the exact values/ step to go through -- it is simple volt meter settings. Next go with a "colder" spark plug, plug/block-off the coolant lines going to the intake and you might get a bit more power.To really take adavtage of that you need to "recurve" the ignition, but it ain't hard. In "the day" I know that there were aftermarket chips for the 87 Century T-Type that altered the fuel map and timing curve for a bit more oomph, you might be able to track one down. If you've done all that and "still want more" (who wouldn't???) Get out the cam shaft catalogs and start shopping. Maybe get some fancy rockers too. It will add some bucks, but it is all bolt-on stuff and you can always re-sell it. The "next step" is really the costly one: If you have access to any sort of porting tools/ machine shop invest some time into porting & polishing the STOCK heads and/or decking them to raise compression. You don't want make thing undrivable w/o race gas, but you ought to be able to boost compression at bit w/o problems. If you can weld, weld up some high flow headers and ditch the factory exhaust manifolds -- even if they "tubular", they are giving up a lot to what custom work would yield. You are gonna need to either gut the catalytic converter (if you live where the EPA doesn't do insepections) OR get a high flow converter. Then build out the rest of the exhuast too. Vroom vroom vroom! If you do all these things you ought to be ought VERY little money and have a car that puts a noticeable amount of power to the ground WITHOUT getting into the hairy and trick world of swapping out the ECM -- which is a NECCESITY to go with a turbo!!! Frankly the FWD cars are not well suited to a turbo due to both PACKAGING issues with the transverse layout, the underhood heat, the weak tranny, and the difficulty of getting the whole thing to work. There are A LOT more folks who've successfully tweaked the SUPERCHARGED FWD cars into really really nice performers, but those are mostly the LATER model vehicles (like the FWD Regal & Gran Prix) and that might be another route to consider. Good luck and if you have questions send to my email (check my profile). P.S. My current "everyday ride" is a 2003 Bravada, so it's my "merry Oldsmobile"...
http://v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=94968 Al/Jeff. Check this out. Saw it on here today. Hope it helps. Good luck. http://v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=93510 Also saw this too. Might be more what you are looking for with the harness and ECM.
FWD heads are 'different" -- some say better, others not... If you are totally committed to getting a "drop-in" package (which I would not recommend, but I am will not point the "splinter in my neighbor's eye while I have a plank in mine"...) you should know that the GN/T-Type motor used heads that were canted out a bit more than the FWD heads. Some folks say they have more flow potential, others don't think so. The 89 turbo trans am used 'em. The reason the TTA & the FWD use 'em is PACKAGING -- the FWD heads move the exhast inwards a couple of inches -- makes it fit A LOT better in the tight F-body underhood area and that of the FWD cars. If you scrounge around a huge number of TTAs were totaled and might still be out there -- it would make for a MUCH better swap... (but it sounds like you already have too many motors :Brow:
Sorry to hi-jack but I have a question here. Is it possible to swap a FWD fuel injected setup onto a RWD 3.8? or are the intake ports and such different? the only thing I know for sure that is different is the bolt pattern on the bellhousing
FWD into RWD The only one that may work is the 3800 that was in late 90's Camreo. They are both RWD. That 3800 may have small diameter bellhousing bolt pattern, I do not know. One other is the FWD 3800 from 86-88, as I think it had a dual bolt pattern. The problem is the air intake is above the bell housing (left or back). I am planning to put a 86 FI intake on a 3.8 so I can have the FI in my sports car. One other note, the small bolt pattern also fits the small bolt pattern 700r4, so you could have auto. Diver
if your trying to turbo a front wheel v6 use the intake/turbo from a hotair riviera/changes turbo location.there is a guy on the turbobuick board done this to a grand prix . would need custom pipes for exhuast. as for making it rear drive, use the 4/6 s-10/camaro 700r4,but getting a early 85-88(i think)block as it has rear drive v6 mount holes otherwise its custom mounting.it can work but the throttle body will face firewall i was looking into the same thing but just the fi and turning intake around for a rwd 3.8. pulley and brackets for alt/ps/ac was the hold up. andy
use a new grandprix 3800 sc motor it will bolt right up ive seen them put in early 90s w body cars no reason it wont work in the 80s
There is some info on getting good TQ from a 231 here: http://www.off-road.com/toyota/buick_v6_swap.html
