Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details please

Discussion in 'High Tech for Old Iron' started by real82it, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    All,

    I just installed the MSD 6530 programmable ignition on my 455 with a gutted HEI. I used the timing suggestions found on this forum. I have a total of 35 total degrees, coming all in by 2500 RPM. Car is running well with this set up.

    I really like the MSD unit and love the customization.

    I ran a stinger set up years ago. I liked it, but it eventually quit working.

    I was wondering if I could use this MSD unit to emulate the stinger ignition curve.

    I found in some other posts that stinger would pull 2 degrees out for every 1000 rpm.

    Can anyone tell me what the actual stinger ignition curve was?

    Based on the stinger approach, anyone think it would be advantageous to set the MSD curve similarly?

    Have all the timing in by 2500RPM.
    Pull 2 degrees out every 1000 RPM after that (so if I have 35 total, 33 at 3500RPM, 31 at 4500
    RPM, 29 at 5500RPM, etc).

    ??
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  2. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    anyone?
     
  3. DaWildcat

    DaWildcat Platinum Level Contributor

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    I've never run the 6530, but in the directions it clearly states:

    Seems to me that the Run Retard Curve program is where you need to look to get what you're after.

    Devon
     
  4. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    I have no idea what the stinger ignition curve looks like, but from the one MSD digital control box I played with that had individual cylinder timing control, etc, it would be a piece of cake to pull timing as rpm went up.

    From what I've gathered, having timing pulled with rpm isn't exactly the best thing until in high gear when the cylinders start getting saturated with heat and more even load over a longer period of time (last 1/8 mile of the 1/4, or on land speed runs). The pulling of timing is to account for the extra heat present in the cylinders that make combustion happen quicker, so timing is pulled so peak combustion pressure happens at the same time. Doing it in all gears might not have the same power gains.
     
  5. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    We use the MSD 6530.

    TheSilverBuick is correct in that you don't want to pull timing out until high gear.

    Use the Pink "Retard Step" wire to pull timing out during high gear.
    Attach the wire to a manual switch at first and experiment.
    If it works out to be beneficial, install a switch that activates during high gear and set the rpm step value high enough so it only activates when racing
    and not during cruising speed.

    Paul
     
  6. Rob Ross

    Rob Ross Well-Known Member

    The Stinger S4 pulls approximately 1.5 degrees per 1,000 rpm. I ran a MSD Digital 6 with and without retard and found only approximately 5 hp on a high compression engine (retarding gained hp). However, low compression engines like retard and the stinger was worth about 15 hp over points. Never had the chance to compare the S4 and the digital 6 on a low compression engine.
     
  7. No Lift

    No Lift Platinum Level Contributor

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    I agree that the Stinger S-4 system retards the timing 1.5/1000 rpm. The reason it is better than just a high gear retard especially on a less "built" engine/setup is it allows you to add advance in the midrange where a milder setup can use the extra punch. Then it pulls timing out to where it should be at higher rpm and it does it in every gear automatically pretty much giving you best of all worlds. Some engines respond to it and the Buick is one of them. I've run them on 455's, 350's and 401's and they all liked it.

    With a normal ignition you would set it up so that all the the timing would be at 32-34 by 3000 rpm right up to 5500 rpm or so. First thing you have to remember the S-4 is retarding right from the get-go. That means by 1000 rpm it has retarded 1.5 and 2000 rpm 3. You don't see that when checking because your advance curve in the distributer is covering it up. That means you've also added a few degrees more of initial advance to make up for it. Assuming all your advance curve is in by 3000 rpm(4.5 retarded at this point but not evident) this is when you would see the actual retard starting to work with your timing light. Therefore if you see 38 at 3000 rpm(which is what I normally set it up for) by 5500 rpm the timing will be pulled back to a more optimum 34 and still retarding if you rev higher.

    You can see that compared to a normal ignition you've added 4 in the midrange to fatten up the torque. That's why the high gear retard just doesn't work as well for less built engines, no midrange boost.

    The only problem with the S-4 is the spark oputput is pretty poor so I would run mine into a MSD 6A box for the best of both worlds. MSD used to make Timing Master p/n 8760 which did the same thing as the S-4 and plugged right into the 6A. I happen to have one that I bought at a speed shop a long time ago.
     
  8. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    Thanks Mike

    Great explanation.
    I learned something new.

    Paul
     
  9. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    I gave up and quit messing with a timing retard. Finally settled on 35 degrees of total timing in by 2200 rpm without retard. No real numbers, but seat of the pants tells me this is working for my set up. I really like the msd 6530 6AL2/HEI set up - very easy to tune and play with and great performance.
     
  10. pmuller9

    pmuller9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Use MSD 6530 to emulate the Stinger Ignition curve? Need some input - details pl

    Thanks for posting your final results.
    It's nice when there is closure to a thread and no one has to wonder how the problem turned out.
    Glad the MSD 6530 is working for you.

    Paul
     

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