Torn on an engine swap

Discussion in 'Pro-Touring' started by zimmstoy, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. zimmstoy

    zimmstoy Active Member

    Hey everyone,

    Looking for a few opinions. I have a 70 Buick GS 455 Stage 1 Convertible Tribute. The car is built on a 70 Skylark 350 Convertible Tub. It has a 455 and Turbo400 from a 70 GS 455 (I have all the paperwork on it). The car runs great but have been wanting to do more with it. The engine needs to be pulled and cleaned up. At that time I would get some new headers as the current ones I think may have some minor warping or need a gasket on the drivers side and they rub a little on the drivers side as well. Additionally I have been looking at putting either an OD transmission in the car or a Gear Vendors to give me a little better driveability on the highway. I would also convert to EFI and upgrade to a TA Intake manifold. The rest of the car is in great shape. An easy 9.5/10.

    As I add up the pricing to do this the way I want I have come to realize I can do an LS Swap fairly reasonably. Almost an equal amount of money, but I think I would gain greater driveability with the addition of the EFI. Since the car is a clone, we drive it quite a bit. I take my kids around to car shows and just drive it around town on the weekends. Since the car is not orignal, am I losing "originality" of any sort; aside from being true to the era?

    I know opinions will likely swing in both directions on here, but just curious to the benefits/disadvantages of both options.

    Thanks!!
     
  2. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    If you want to go with the LS platform buy a Chevelle. if you love your Buick keep it all Buick. JMHO
     
  3. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    I agree. When I see or hear a nice GS with a Chevy swap I lose most of my interest quick. Something cool about a nice powerful buick power plant still in its Buick. JMHO as well
     
  4. real82it

    real82it Silver Level contributor

    I am on the other side of this fence. If there is not a compelling reason to keep it all Buick (such as value), and an LS motor suits how you will use the car, then put one in. Better power, better mileage, better parts availability, less weight, etc.

    For my 72 GS convertible, I will always put a Buick big block in it, due to value and rarity.
    For my 72 GS 350 HT, next engine will be a LS.
    For my current Olds cutlass project, engine of choice is LS based.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  5. philbquick

    philbquick Founders Club Member

    Why not put an 86/87 GN set-up in it. It would have good drivability, 25+ MPG and be all Buick.
     
  6. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    If you put an LS motor in it you have just built the definition of a belly button car: Everybody has one. If you go to a car show, you have something unique and different.
     
  7. zimmstoy

    zimmstoy Active Member

    All valid points. Would I be screwing up too much if I put EFI on the 455 and added a 200r4 in the car?
     
  8. knucklebusted

    knucklebusted Well-Known Member

    I don't think so. Putting new tech on an old motor is very cool in my book. I have a 200-4R in my 70 Stage 1.
     
  9. WarHawg75

    WarHawg75 Well-Known Member

    No, please do and then do a nice write-up!
     
  10. MDBuick68

    MDBuick68 Silver Level contributor

    With how much Buick love we have here just remember its your ride and do what makes you happy. These are all just opinions and in the end its still a Buick and still cool as ice. Whatever you choose I wish you the best and plenty of enjoyment to come. With that said.... An Injected BBB would be badass!! :)
     
  11. freda155

    freda155 Well-Known Member

  12. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Unless youre restoring a car to stock, factory appearance, there no reason other than persoanl prefernce as to what motor you put in any vehicle. I hate to ruin one of the purist arugments, but there is no such thing as a "belly button" Buick car. Anyone who's been to a car show knows that a Buick is a rare sight no matter what. Quite honestly, the LS motor has the adoration of the entire world right now with its adaptability and power capacity so youll probably have more people hovering over you car with a LS swap that you would if you kept the motor stock.

    For all the things youve listed that your goig to do to the 455, youre right, you could invest in an LS motor/trans and have more power and better economy/street manners than the 455. You could also EFI the 455 but dont expect a huge increase in gas milage without the addition of the overdrive trans.

    Its your car, so build it the way you want it. A Buick will always stand out at a car show, no matter the power plant, so dont compromise your plans to make the purists aka "haters" on this board happy.
     
  13. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Brand loyalty aside.. if you do an LS swap, make sure you keep the technology.. the trans/EFI and engine management systems..

    That's the best part of doing that swap, and those who put an LS in with a carb are missing the boat in my opinion.

    Now I know why the do it.. keeping the tech, wiring harnesses and all that stuff will be the biggest challenge. Nothing is going to "fit" like you want it to, because it was designed for a different application.

    I am sure you can go on the LS sites and find all the the info you need for the swap, just follow the 68-72 Chevelle swap threads.

    Biggest downside is everyone has one now.. so your building something that won't impress either the Buick or the Chevy guys.. if that matters at all to you.

    Personally, I prefer to adapt the new technology to the older motors, while that is never going to be the least expensive option, I think with the right EFI dedicated manifold, the 455 can be a real powerhouse, yet be really drivable. Throttle body EFI has it's place, but real power advantages will come from the dedicated EFI manifold stuff.. that is what an LS really is, a refined, factory designed deal, not a converted carburetor manifold.

    See my avatar... if I can get Crane to send me my tool steel Tomahawk cam here soon, that setup will run this summer. While it's actually going to be a blow thru supercharged deal, we will run that manifold without the blower, and I have enough data from previous motors I will be able to get an idea of what it's all about.

    I am looking into viable options on control systems, and adapting that intake to the Stock/SE head configuration, if in fact it proves itself out with the prototype here.

    If it does, then I will be building that EFI manifold setup for the GS's, will wring out the prototype NA GS setup in the shop test car, on the way to offering it in kit form.

    Best thing about that manifold is that it is, for all intents and purposes, a tunnel ram that will fit under the stock GS hood.
     
  14. sriley531

    sriley531 Excommunicado

    I'm in agreement with all of the above.
    Heck no you're not screwing it up, that'd just a be cool bbb with excellent driveability! That option gets my vote for sure!
     
  15. zimmstoy

    zimmstoy Active Member

    Very interesting Jim - on the efi and efi manifold. Let me know what you find.

    I picked up a 200r4 core this weekend and dropped it off for rebuild. Thats a starting point. Here goes nothing :)
     
  16. theone61636

    theone61636 Well-Known Member

    Start looking for a good driveshaft place, you're going to end up needing a new one (mine had to be longer). TV cable, lockup controls and convertor (you may need spacers for proper covertor gap). For an EFI manifold, you could always have someone weld bungs onto your intake or just find a used SP1 and have a local shop add the bungs for relatively cheap. The Holley Avenger EFI system seems to be pretty popular along with FAST XFI. You're probably looking at $2500+ for fuel system and efi components so prepare yourself now.

    I think once you get the 2004r installed and adjusted properly youll be surprised with how different the car is to drive around. One thing to be wary of with the 2004r is it will not allow you to go full throttle in 4th gear. It will kick down to 3rd and stay there until you let off the gas some. Also, the WOT 1-2 shift is usually aroun 4k and isnt the easiest thing to modify. I'm assuming youll have a shift kit in it so youll at least be able to manually shift it wherever you want. The cooler lines are in the reverse order of the TH400 and you will need adapters to fit the stock lines in the 2004r. You will also need a custom linkage for the TV cable based on your carb so you have correct geometry in the linkage. If you plan on racing the car at all i would recommend putting an extra qt of fluid int he tranny at all times or invest in a deep sump pan. good luck and dont worry, itll all be worth it in the end.
     
  17. 19Skylark68 455

    19Skylark68 455 Neighborhood Nuisance

    Well, you're asking the question on a site dedicated to Buicks, so you're going to get a rather one sided response. I built my 455 9 years ago and have been happy with it. Back then I'd never consider an LS swap, but honestly, when this BBB goes, my 68 will be getting an LS. As far as bang for the buck, they can't be beat. You won't get the mileage of an LS even with an EFI system on a 455. Most of the nay sayers you get are from the small crowd of diehard guys that get most of their satisfaction from cruise nights. You seem like someone who loves to drive and drive it hard, not to mention this is the pro-touring section. I'm starting to get into autocross and road racing and I'm quite concerned about my oiling system holding up, even with all the mods. At the end of the day, just think about what you like to do with it and what aspects you find most enjoyable. If you feel ashamed to go to a cruise night with an LS powered Buick, put EFI on your big block and you'll see some improvements. If you care more about your driving experience and aren't too concerned with originality, go ahead and throw in an LS. I hope that helps.
     
  18. Luxus

    Luxus Gold Level Contributor

    My vote is for the LS. You have a tribute car anyway so your not ruining anything. There is a reason 'everyone' has one, they are awesome motors. I will say this, forget the 200r4. Get a newer 6 speed. If your gonna do it, go all the way.

    A 'modernized' 455 does sound pretty sweet though. But once again, pair it with a 6 speed.
     
  19. Briz

    Briz Founders Club Member

    I do not agree. Bottom line is its his car and he should do whatever make him happy. I for one drive the heck out of both my big blocks. Milage be damned. Ive got over 200 passes on a basically stock 455 doing WOT trans brake launches and 12000 miles of driving all over and roasting off 2 sets of 295/50/15 on a 430. When I open the hood its a wow factor that a LS engine will never have. Might not be the fastest guy at the track(and thats ok) but nearly always the only Buick powered Buick.
     
  20. nekkidhillbilly

    nekkidhillbilly jeffreyrigged youtube channel owner

    you could do tbi 4l60e on your 455 pretty cheap using a junk chevy truck. granted you will need to tune it and maybe swap to aftermakert tbi itself but buy using the truck parts you have a ecm wiring for tbi and everything needed to run the od trans. you also wouldnt need new driveshaft but would need a trans adapter( 40 bucks or so). there are several 454ss built to 500 hp. i dont see why you couldnt use the same setup on a 455 as long as it was tuned for the buick.
     

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