Tom Telesco, working on GOOD pistons for the Nailhead!

Discussion in ''Da Nailhead' started by SpecialWagon65, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Actually the iron 455 stage 1 ported heads can get as much as 280-290 cfm on the intake side and if I recall correctly the low 200s on the ex. side. With the 30 more cubes and the 20-30 more cfm is more of a difference than you posted. Plus the NH engine itself weighs more than a 455 so if the data was taken from the same car with the 455 in it and the same car with the NH in it the car would weight a hundred lbs more plus or minus with the NH.(not sure the exact weight difference but I'm pretty sure the NH is heavier)

    A quick and simple very basic reference I like to use with engines between 380 to 480 cid is CFM X 2 = rough HP potential. So 264 X 2 = 528 rough HP potential and 290 X 2 = 580 rough HP potential. This does not factor in torque output, obviously more cid will make more torque and the smaller cid engines will have to spin faster to make the same HP number with the same CFM but will make less max torque. I like this reference because its on the conservative side, engines that are more efficient can make more power with less cfm. And like Tom said about the lower number making more power because of less turbulence and so on. Just a quick and easy reference to use for a decent guesstimate of HP output.

    Plus why would the guy lie about what a machine tells him the cfm is? He has nothing to gain because I don't think many people will send their NH heads to Australia to have their heads ported. LOL

    I would say to the guy with the cfm claims to stop porting now with those heads and find another set to see if he can get more out of those so the ported ones he has don't get scrapped from hitting water! GL


    Derek
     
  2. Babeola

    Babeola Well-Known Member

    You did see that I specified 4000 pounds making the weight argument null. Also if you had bothered to check the reference I gave him in an earlier post, his heads flow similar to the gessler heads listed for the 455. I know those heads went high 10s in a 4100 pound 67 skylark. He should be able to make a 430 run similar with his heads in a 4k car. My point is we do not race flow benches, so I want to see what it can do before I believe the claims. I have this bridge in Brooklyn you may be interested in though.............

    Cheryl :)
     
  3. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    So why does it seem that you are getting upset about his claims? Why try to scare the guy off basically telling him he is full of _ _it?(kinda sounds like it anyway from reading your posts, am I wrong? If I am my apologies)

    I welcome him to start a thread here I would love to see some of the techniques he used to get those numbers and the rest of the build. The NH section needs more threads of people doing a cool NH builds, we haven't had one in a while, dyno numbers would even be cooler! Being that m1nt55 is from a business probably doing a build for a customer he might not get any track numbers so I would settle for the dyno numbers if he wants to share those.

    m1nt55 it would be very cool if you started a build thread of your own for the Nailhead build you're working on.



    Derek
     
  4. 66gsconv

    66gsconv nailhead apprentice

    Hi m1nt55, there are a couple of nailhead threads on porting with a few pictures. The best I have heard at .500 was the snake at 238 cfm. I would think your past that with 264 at .600. Would like to hear your whole numbers. Your valve size, Mcsa, and Velocity and some things. Don't want to hijack this thread. Hope to see you on a porting thread.
     
  5. wkillgs

    wkillgs Gold Level Contributor

    Bump!!

    We better order before the deal is gone!

    I posted on the other thread, but I'll copy it here:

    >>Tom, I'd like to follow thru on the two sets I put a deposit on, but engines aren't apart so I don't have exact specs.
    I basically want about 0.030" over, 1/16" rings, 10.0 to 10.25 CR with steel head gaskets.
    It's a restoration, not a race engine. But I want good performance!

    Deck clearance on the last 2 401's I had apart averaged 0.045" down. So for 0.035" quench distance, 0.015" steel head gasket, I need pistons with an additional 0.025" compression height over stock.... putting pistons 0.020" below deck.
    If my blocks turn out to off the norm, I can always cut the deck and/or switch to composition head gaskets to get the quench height right.

    Hastings has a 'race' catalog with 1/16" rings. AMC 390 and Pontiac 455 have similar bore sizes.
    I see 3 ring sets that might work for an overbored Buick 401:

    4.210" bore (0.0225" overbored 401) pn 2m5542, AMC 390, 0.045" over
    4.215" bore (0.0275" overbored 401) pn 2m5543, Pontiac 455, 0.065" over
    4.230" bore (0.0425" overbored 401) pn 2m5542, AMC 390, 0.065" over

    Total Seal has the 'Classic Race' series in the following:

    4.200" bore (0.0125" overbored 401) pn CR2455 0.035" over
    4.216" bore (0.0285" overbored 401) pn CRL3455 0.065" over, low tension oil ring
    4.233" bore (0.0455" overbored 401) pn CRL7190 std
    4.238" bore (0.0505" overbored 401) CR7190 0.005" over, low tension oil ring

    Do you have other ring sizes avail? I'll look them up, who makes them?
     
  6. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Usually the standard bore 401/4.1875 5/64ths. (NOT 1/16th.) rings are available in .020"=4.2075" (normally supplied with 4.2100" rings which normally need to be filed for proper ring end gaps) .030" = 4.2175" .040" = 4.2275" ( normally supplied in kits with .040" OS pistons are .030" OS rings which make for a big ring end gap) or .060" = 4.2475" which normally get a 4.250" ring package. This is OK as now you have to file fit to get proper end gaps. Just need to make sure oil rings aren't too tight. ALL of the above are available in MANY diff. materials, mostly cast iron, but others are available if you do some searching. I did a 401 & was able to source double Moly with chrome rings.

    As far as OS rings availability for a 401/4.1875" & different oversizes:
    401 AMC- standard bore 4.165------ .030"=4.195+5= .0075 OS------------.060"=4.225+5= .0375" OS

    Pontiac 455- standard bore 4.155"---------------.060"=4.2110"=.0235 OS

    Ford 427-standard bore 4.233------------ rings 4.233"+5=.0455" OS +.030" OS=4.263"+5=.0755" OS

    Chev 427/454 & Mopar 383/426 standard bore 4.250"=.0625" OS ring availability, just about ANYTHING your heart desires mostly in +5 also

    These are mostly 1/16th. size rings with a 3/16ths. oil ring. Also in various materials



    Ring availability for a 425/4.3125 & diff. OS

    Mopar 440 standard bore 4.320"=.0075 OS with .020".030".060" all +5=up to with a .060" OS 4.380"=.0675" OS

    Ford 429-standard bore=4.360"=.0475" OS with 4.370"--4.375"--4.380" available up to .0775" OS


    Most ALL of these rings are available with diff. materials. There are HUGE choices to go with if your willing to think outside the box.

    Hope this will help in making up someones mind on whats available.


    Tom T.
     
  7. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

  8. 66BulldogGS

    66BulldogGS Platinum Level Contributor

    Copying this information over from the other thread so that it all stays together.

    Per Tom T.

    OK, GOOD NEWS!!! After ALL the many phone calls sine April I've finally gotten in touch with the owner, Fred, on Sept. 24th. We spent considerable time on the phone explaining the frustrations & such of such a LONG time in this ordering process to happen. I, of course was reminded of the SPECIAL considerations that had to be made. Almost 2 yrs. on mine & their parts, making & sending molds, MANY phone calls, which cut into my productive shop time. This WAS NOT & IS NOT MY FULL TIME JOB!!! It is part of MY Passion of mine & to the Hobby of "NailHeads" & trying to make something available that is NOT available today to the other Hobbyists out there in Cyber Land. Proto Types to OK design changes, MANY design changes to eliminate the short comings of the original designs & what was available in the after market today. To make something BETTER, to make something like this happen on such LOW VOLUME orders would NOT be at the front of the running order. These parts have ALL the benefits of modern design & technology. Using modern, advanced materials that were NOT available in the 60's & '70's, everybody copies the original design parameters with all of the short comings of the original design, to make a product that FAR surpasses the original in just about every way. I:E: what it boils down to is: NO VOLUME= NO BIG RUSH. Was told of the lead times & being such a low volume & that as of today, even though I've gotten plenty of deposits, after almost 3 years since the original posts, MANY have still not given me their specs. so I can place the orders as originally requested. Since this almost 3 years has passed. The cost of materials & labor keep going up at unprecedented rates. MANY came into this even after the original expiration dates that were even extended a few times & I kept to the original pricing.
    Bad news. If I order ONLY one set at a time, if you are in a rush, rather than the 5 sets at a time, the $$$ will have to go up $15 00 per or $120.00 per set. Don't forget, this includes pistons, pins. quality rings & pin fitting in just about ANY bore, pin & ring sizes & ring thickness available. Not just .020", .030", .040" or .060" oversize's . Still a GOOD $$$$ amount for FORGED, MODERN DESIGN PARTS & MATERIALS parts. I'm sure as more time passes that the material & labor $$$ will continue to rise. By how much in the future who knows or how long. So the sooner the better.
    So, now we all have an OPTION. We can wait for the required 5 set order if you have the time or do an individual order albeit at an additional cost. Approx. turn around time is two weeks. It is NOW up to everyone to step up to the plate so to say.
    There is now an option. Utilize it if nec.
    I'm so very sorry in some cases I haven't responded to P.M.'s, phone calls, etc. No matter what it would not have sped up the process. As well as assuming that by making a full in advance payment would speed things up. It was out of my hands so to speak. I just had NO news to tell. It's not as if I'm trying to ignore anyone. I've done my due diligence as best as I can from my end.


    Tom T.
     
  9. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

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